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UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- Proposal 7 (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928521914)
It is hard to minus a dog that doesn't have any strike points to minus. The silent part doesn't bother me as much as assigning minus points to a dog. That is going to run off more handlers than it will attract.
Hunts will quickly become a matter of turning 4 dogs loose and walking to 4 trees. Now that is great if you live in an area that has 4 coons in every tract or patch of timber. But if you live where there are only 1 or 2 coons then 2 or 3 dogs are going to have to leave the country to try to find their own.
The same exact style of dogs that are winning the big hunts now are still going to be winning under these rules. It’s hard to beat a hustling loner type dog that has a coon when he parks. Babbling Me to dogs are a MINORITY IN THE WINNERS CIRCLE.
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
It is hard to minus a dog that doesn't have any strike points to minus. The silent part doesn't bother me as much as assigning minus points to a dog. That is going to run off more handlers than it will attract.
Hunts will quickly become a matter of turning 4 dogs loose and walking to 4 trees. Now that is great if you live in an area that has 4 coons in every tract or patch of timber. But if you live where there are only 1 or 2 coons then 2 or 3 dogs are going to have to leave the country to try to find their own.
the problem thats going to happen is when all dogs are split up walk 1000 yds to dog a treed other dogs were still trailing in other direction dog a has coon walks 50 yds cuts his dog you think hes going to let you walk back where you can here your dog.
You'll have to walk back the direction you last heard your dog. He can't recut until you hear the open dog or the 8 is over. Unless I'm not understanding the ruling at all. Basically the same as CHKC rules on that. Which if it was up to me at local hunts, I'd fire mine in your direction not away from it. But I can see what you're saying.
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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs
Gone but not forgotten
GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy
quote:?
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, didn't Dalton just voluntarily keep Shack on the leash for the last 15 minutes at AO Finals?
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a tree is "dead" after 3 minutes, you can't tree a dog on it. The new rule says that dogs at a tree when the cast arrives will be assigned next available position and minused. Now after 3 minutes the next available position is zero since the tree is dead and you can't tree in on it. What are they going to do?
Now having a tree countdown, I can understand. And saying that a tree is dead after 3 minutes, I can understand also. But this assigning tree points and minusing them makes no sense to me whatsoever.
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Robert " Rock" Johnson
Johnson Creek Kennels
home of:
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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
This one rule is the absolute death of the sport in these eyes. It makes no sense at all, and there are going to be many "discussions " in the woods over this. TOTAL B S. Yep, everyone will have that deep, and deeper lonely nut, but around here there will not be a place to hunt them. Pleasure hunting is looking better all the time.
quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
.... y’all need to hunt under it before you draw judgement. I have hunted under it a bunch !
Mr positive !!
Tarbaby
quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Rock your wrong It keeps the cast competing closer instead of blowing past coons y’all need to hunt under it before you draw judgement. I have hunted under it a bunch ! think about this you think this ole fat , crippled , washed up kid would be for somthing that hurts you ? I would be crying fowl on every post lol.
Ain’t many going to take minus that’s dogs are treeing coons. All the old guys are coming back they are gonna be some coon clinics put on. But if you want to be Debbie downer go ahead.
Mr positive !!
Tarbaby
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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs
Gone but not forgotten
GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy
quote:Have hunted under this rule, like it a lot. Takes a trained dog that knows what you want an can stay out of trouble. This rule will take care of the back packers. If you have a dog that doesn’t blow through the country an can tree every coon it comes to ole deep an lonely will have his hands full. No leash lock on top of that to.It will be a must that a man spends as much time as can be spent pleasure hunting an working on his dog for these rules. Yes people will find ways to cheat. A real hunted up coon dog will prevail with these rules.
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
This one rule is the absolute death of the sport in these eyes. It makes no sense at all, and there are going to be many "discussions " in the woods over this. TOTAL B S. Yep, everyone will have that deep, and deeper lonely nut, but around here there will not be a place to hunt them. Pleasure hunting is looking better all the time.
quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
Have hunted under this rule, like it a lot. Takes a trained dog that knows what you want an can stay out of trouble. This rule will take care of the back packers. If you have a dog that doesn’t blow through the country an can tree every coon it comes to ole deep an lonely will have his hands full. No leash lock on top of that to.It will be a must that a man spends as much time as can be spent pleasure hunting an working on his dog for these rules. Yes people will find ways to cheat. A real hunted up coon dog will prevail with these rules.
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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs
Gone but not forgotten
GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy
quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
..... and working on his dog for these rules.......
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What exactly does this mean? I take it to mean that you think that we will now have to retrain or change our dogs just to fit this new rule change.
And isn't the CHKC defunct now? These rules must not have helped them. If we were going to copy another Kennel Club's rules, maybe we should have picked a successful one.
Another thing, people saying the silent, independent dog will take over . I can’t see that either. Two dogs or all four strick the same track an tree . No matter if they are open or silent they will be competing against one another. That’s what we want . Because it will be the handlers job to tree first an the tree points will work out .Yes there will be pitching going on .But this is what everyone is so butt hurt over. An this is my honest opinion. More than likely if your dog wasn’t involved with what I said above , an shows up at the tree after the 3 is up it left what it was doing an deserves a minus. An besides if my dog done that I wouldn’t like it . He’s wasting my time an I am drawing minus. Stiff competition is coming, an the rules are set for it.
I think new rules works good for seasoned houndsman that can train dog not cover ( not as many naturally independent dogs as people say) But for young guy starting out he fixin take lots minus and get really discouraged. Also some older men still attending hunts will not like new rule. I understand 2 things that everyone needs to. 1 you cant please everyone. 2 complaining about something isnt goin change it so either play by new rules or stay at house. I personally dont see any problem with new rules. I hate one hour hunts but with new rules being faster pace it should let cream rise to top more on shorter hunts.
Guess we will all know more in another 5 or 6 months.
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Bayou Creek Black and Tan’s
Nathan Phenix
417-255-5697
Under the current rules a dog fiddle farts around and backs a dog on a slick tree and most people don't have a problem with assigning next available on the tree and minusing the backing dog.
New rules a dog fiddle farts around and backs a dog on a tree with a coon and people are having a problem with assigning next available on the tree and minusing the backing dog.
I think it all comes down to whether a person feels like a dog should back another dog on a tree with a coon in it whether the backer treed a few seconds behind the other dog or treed a few minutes behind the other dog.
My initial feeling was that was wrong to minus the backer on a coon but then I thought about just pleasure hunting and I don't want my dog hitchhiking behind another dog that far behind another dog no matter what the circumstances. Pleasure hunting one night with a guy and his two dogs treed, mine was in and out on the tree and she didn't want to tree with them for whatever reason but wouldn't get out of there. I ended up busting her butt and sending her out of there. The guy I was hunting with got a little mad when I did and said "you don't think my dogs have a coon?". I told him "it doesn't matter, she needs to either get on the pot or get off of it." We didn't find a coon on his dogs tree but I found mine shortly after that under a coon. So my point is, if I am training for a coon dog I am training for a competition hunt too.
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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel
I don’t mind if a dog backs as long as he helps run the track. A dog can travel a long ways in 3 min. No one wants to get beat by a dog that stole undeserving points. This is competition not pleasure hunting.Makes me mad pleasure hunting to.😆
Rule 7
Proposal 7. Treeing but not Declared Treed When Judge Arrives. (Passed 5-2)
Any dog(s) treeing, but not declared treed, when the judge arrives shall be assigned next available tree points. The dog shall be awarded next available tree points and minused both strike and tree if; coon is seen, tree is slick, or off game is seen. In the case of more than one dog; split available points.
I don't know if they go in for 75,50,25 divide if more than one dog, or just 25. "In the case of more than one dog; split available points" makes it look like they would get 2nd tree right on down? And no I have no problem giving a dog that is out there doin nothing minus for finally coming in and backing. Don't know that I agree with giving a dog minus for treeing a coon than seeing what your dog has treed and treeing if it has a coon. As far as no leash lock does that mean when I get to the tree before we shine I recut my dog, than we score the tree. No sense in him watching me shine for 8 min. he knows he has him, time for him to go get another one.
If a dog is running the same track & backs later then 3 min it deserves a minus, if it’s not running the same track & covers it deserves a minus for quitting its track. Either way this rule was changed for a dog that trees the most coons to win...
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The problem is that if a dog is the first dog treed and scored that when they are recast they might get with another dog that treed after they did and the three minutes is up on the second dogs tree. This is going to get the first dog to tree a coon some minus points and the second dog treed is still going to have more points overall even though it took him/her longer to get trees with a coon than the first dog. This is going to mean to avoid those minus points people are going to have to train or breed even more for dogs that are independent. A dog would always get their strike minused before but now they will also get some tree points minused. That is the biggest difference.
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John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What exactly does this mean? I take it to mean that you think that we will now have to retrain or change our dogs just to fit this new rule change.
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CORNERSTONE TREEING WALKERS
Greg & Marcia Harring
Syracuse, Nebraska
402-209-5053
I don’t hunt pkc much because I hate a dead loaner there is no place for one at my house. I like a dog that will tree his coon get a piece of yours tree himself another one and then get some of somebody else’s. I absolutely refuse to break my dogs from covering, hounds are pack animals. It’s no fun to me to turn four dogs loose then walk to the four points of the compass to different trees. When I cut my dog off a tree and a dog opens I expect him to go help that dog,unless he strikes a track going to him. I won’t change what I’ve bred for 20 years to fit the rules. The way the rules are now I’ll get minused for cutting off my tree towards a treed dog that’s tree is dead. Do I think he should get a piece of that coon ,no. But should should he be minused for covering because that’s what he’s bred to do when he did nothing wrong by my standards I don’t think he should. With that pleasure hunting looks really good right now
quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
The problem is that if a dog is the first dog treed and scored that when they are recast they might get with another dog that treed after they did and the three minutes is up on the second dogs tree. This is going to get the first dog to tree a coon some minus points and the second dog treed is still going to have more points overall even though it took him/her longer to get trees with a coon than the first dog. This is going to mean to avoid those minus points people are going to have to train or breed even more for dogs that are independent. A dog would always get their strike minused before but now they will also get some tree points minused. That is the biggest difference.
quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Buuuuuut indapendant in a way to keep stuffing coons up ole snoop barkie barks backsides instead of going to him playing his game.
Tar
__________________
John Smith
Ohio Valley Bluetick Kennel
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