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Posted by joey on 06-13-2019 06:32 PM:

Coon catching theory

I have a dog that is 4 years old, he has caught over 150 coon on the ground. He caught 2 last night, That's running wide open not slipping around silent catching them. He is fast but I have had dogs that were faster and never caught a coon. He will do this running a track by himself or running with other dogs. He is extremely accurate and I know he trees a lot of layups off body scent with no track. I've learned over the years that coon do not just get struck and run to a tree. A lot of them will squat like a rabbit and let the dogs run past. I've seen it several times. The dogs over run them and never get it picked back up.

So I have been thinking that one reason he catches so many is because he is so good at picking up body scent like when he trees lay ups. The other night I watched it happen. He was with two pups and was running a coon up a fence row coming right at me. I seen the coon coming and he crossed a log and squatted down on the other side. Everything come over the log but when he got about 10 feet past it he through his head up and went strait to the coon and caught it. Was this a fluke or is this how he is doing it all the time? If so I have other dogs that were layup dogs and didn't do this?

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Posted by gpent24 on 06-13-2019 08:52 PM:

where do you hunt at? cause i have hunted in some really good places with some really good dogs and i have never heard one person over their life ever catching that many on the ground much less one dog....

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Posted by joey on 06-13-2019 09:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gpent24
where do you hunt at? cause i have hunted in some really good places with some really good dogs and i have never heard one person over their life ever catching that many on the ground much less one dog....


I live in Arkansas, he has caught them all over. Several people have seen him catch 2 or 3 a night. Some nights he doesn't catch any. He went through a spell where he didn't catch any after he got eat up real bad by one. Poor dog is scared up like a fighting dog, more than one vet visit because of it. Honestly I wish he wouldn't catch them. Last month on a one hour hunt we were walking to the other dogs treed, hunt was fixing to end and he caught one on the ground 40 yards from their tree. Pulled all but one dog off the tree. I've hunted 30 years and I have have only seen one other dog do it like him, Joe Hughes had him his name was Curtis.

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PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too


Posted by sleepy head on 06-13-2019 10:57 PM:

What some dogs can do with their nose that others can't and then not be to do something as good as the dog that couldn't is hard to explain. Shadlac on here probably understands locating ability better than most. I'd like to pick his brain sometime


Posted by micooner on 06-13-2019 11:45 PM:

Maybe for some reason you have a real stupid coon population. Lol. Must be the environment they grow up in.


Posted by Dogwhisper on 06-14-2019 01:00 AM:

The dog must drink alot of caffeine ....


Posted by Bryan K Webb on 06-14-2019 04:10 AM:

Sounds like a nice dog that has a ton of coon sense.. Just curious what's the breeding on your dog??? Sounds like a nice outfit!!


Posted by Rip on 06-14-2019 04:21 AM:

I had a female that treed a ton of layups. One night I seen her tree a layup the whole cast didn't know was there she winded it on the turn loose went through a saddle on the ridge and treed in the field on the other side of the ridge. She winded them coon (three in one tree) 500 yards from where she treed them.

She caught them on the ground consistently. She ran with her head up and pulled hair. She caught them in the thickets and mountains of Tennessee and the corn fields of Illinois. She caught coon on the ground wherever she went.

She was an open trailer.

She was the fastest track dog I have ever been in the woods with and the most accurate treedog.

She didn't make as many trees as other dogs I have owned.

She just had a great nose and knew how to use it. She caught probably 1-2 per month and as high as 3 in one night. It was not uncommon for her.

She was a black and tan out of Two Time Albert.

It may have been like he said, she tracked the body/air scent so she caught them when others missed them on the dodge.

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 06-14-2019 05:10 AM:

Ole Wood would make a he'll of a bobcat dog if he would run them.

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2019 12:08 PM:

I am pretty sure a whole lot of dogs catch coon on the ground , and a lot of them get shocked for it , how many times has your dog or dogs left out screaming and get almost out of hearing , sound like they are treed for a few , and then go silent. Tom and I have had this happen when hunting together and it has happened quite a few times every year not just with Tom but my other hunting buddies as well Gary , Pat , Kooper , Justin etc. especially in January , February and March.

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 06-14-2019 12:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by gpent24
where do you hunt at? cause i have hunted in some really good places with some really good dogs and i have never heard one person over their life ever catching that many on the ground much less one dog....



You need to hunt with My Judge dog then , I call him BIG STUPID , He is BIG but he ain't Stupid and he ain't slow. He turned 8 in Jan and he caught at least a half dozen on the ground in ,J , F and March.

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When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.


Posted by yadkintar on 06-14-2019 12:22 PM:

Mine catch every cage coon I cut loose !! Bring um down here see how many they catch ! You must have really clean woods.



Just sayen


Tar


Posted by Larry Mullins on 06-14-2019 12:58 PM:

I seen a b&t several years ago, he was old and slow, would jack a track bad. He had been a good dog when he was young. But the one thing he would do, for some reason unknown to me is catch coon on the ground. He caught several.

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Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 06-14-2019 01:35 PM:

.

Joey your a pretty bright fellow. What do you feel it is that allows this dog to catch these coon. You say he isn't silent and I have always thought this was the biggest reason for something like this happening.

I have never had one do this. Down here in this thick stuff the outcome you see from a coon being pushed hard is the coon ending up in smaller trees or trees you can tell it is not comfortable in.

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Posted by gpent24 on 06-14-2019 02:35 PM:

I hunt in the delta and its wide open woods and I have one of ours that is almost silent on track. It's no big deal to tree 7-8 or more a night where my camp is between delta national and a lot of other public land right there. In 5 years I've seen one coon caught on the ground up there and I'm pretty sure it was sickly. I'd love to see him go if you came down and hunted one weekend in the fall.

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Posted by DL NH on 06-14-2019 03:20 PM:

You say this dog is an open trailing track dog? How open is open in your definition? Some would call a dog that opens a couple times before it trees an open trailing dog. I suppose if this dog is extremely fast and you have ground that is pretty open, meaning no briars, thick swamps, rocky/ledgey, etc. it's possible. It'd be rare that's for sure.

Is this dog chop mouth or bawl mouth on track?

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Posted by joey on 06-14-2019 05:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
You say this dog is an open trailing track dog? How open is open in your definition? Some would call a dog that opens a couple times before it trees an open trailing dog. I suppose if this dog is extremely fast and you have ground that is pretty open, meaning no briars, thick swamps, rocky/ledgey, etc. it's possible. It'd be rare that's for sure.

Is this dog chop mouth or bawl mouth on track?



He is wide open, he barks more than I like on a hot track. He chops and has a big squall. The biggest part of them he catches are in thickets and or water.

He is fast but I have seen faster, my old howler female is faster than he is and I think has caught one coon in her life.

Bruce, I really think its because he uses his nose for body scent. A lot of people do not know that a coon will duck and squat like a rabbit to let the dogs run by. I think when they do that is when he catches them. Its what I seen happen when that coon ducked behind the log right behind me.

He hardly ever trees a den, but when he does the coon is normally on the outside. He doesn't do it in the summertime but in the winter a lot of time he will be looking where the coon is setting out on a limb as he trees. He just knows where they are.

The dog has more holes than I care to admit. Some of those holes are caused from him wanting to catch a coon, but he has a uncanny ability to know where a coon is and I think its because of what we call locating ability.

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Posted by joey on 06-14-2019 05:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Larry Mullins
I seen a b&t several years ago, he was old and slow, would jack a track bad. He had been a good dog when he was young. But the one thing he would do, for some reason unknown to me is catch coon on the ground. He caught several.


Thats what I'm trying to say, I dont think its about speed. Its about finding the coon. They do not just take off as fast as they can go when a dog is trailing them. They are like deer, a fast dog makes a deer go fast, with a slow dog they will just stay ahead of them. I have seen coons just walking ahead of dogs that acted like they were cold trailing. No idea why but I have seen it more than once.

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PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too


Posted by Toad Hill on 06-14-2019 05:32 PM:

Joey ,

Ive got a young dog that is doing the same thing . BUT he is not catching coon on the ground like you describe ... not yet anyways.
He ALWAYS is winding and treeing on the body of the coon , runs with head in the air , always wanting to walk on back legs while on lead, and has a VERY GOOD nose on him. Smells coon other dogs dont even know is around. He doesnt tree just to hear his head rattle. He also has some holes were working on as well .
He is the most INTELLIGENT dog ive ever owned or seen Period.

I think that is your dog , hes just extremely intelligent !! !!!! and has great nose and winding ability. SMART SUCKER !!!!!


Posted by Toad Hill on 06-14-2019 05:38 PM:

Joey ,
Im curious and you got me thinking......
By chance will your dog wind a coon outta the box while driving and prior to pulling up to your location to cut loose and go the opposite direction you cut him or want him to go to find out hes heading where you just drove through and trees a coon sitting up you just drove by or under several hundred yards away ?


Posted by joey on 06-14-2019 05:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Toad Hill
Joey ,
Im curious and you got me thinking......
By chance will your dog wind a coon outta the box while driving and prior to pulling up to your location to cut loose and go the opposite direction you cut him or want him to go to find out hes heading where you just drove through and trees a coon sitting up you just drove by or under several hundred yards away ?



He will wind them off the box but will not go back if I pass it by very far. What he does do is listen for frogs. If he hears frogs it doesn't matter what way you cut him he is going strait to the frogs.

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When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too


Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 06-14-2019 06:25 PM:

.

Joey if you have been close enough to him when coming on a tree. Do you notice that sometimes he would come into the tree making you think he is seeing the coon up there instead of smelling it on the side of the tree? These dogs have a lot of different styles. Just when you thought you have seen it all. Something new pops up.

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Posted by DL NH on 06-14-2019 06:26 PM:

Guess he figured out that the frog ponds are the McDonalds of the raccoon society!! LOL!

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Posted by Rip on 06-14-2019 06:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
You say this dog is an open trailing track dog? How open is open in your definition? Some would call a dog that opens a couple times before it trees an open trailing dog. I suppose if this dog is extremely fast and you have ground that is pretty open, meaning no briars, thick swamps, rocky/ledgey, etc. it's possible. It'd be rare that's for sure.

Is this dog chop mouth or bawl mouth on track?



Mine was a squall mouth dog. Open trailer but was an honest 2 or 3rd strike dog because she had it going in a direction before she opened. She was also the most intelligent hound I have ever owned.

I hunt swamps, mountains, creek beds, thickets, and corn fields. It didn't matter where she was hunted she caught them on the ground. She would literally run them down in a cornfield race lots of times (She caught two at Autumn Oaks one year like that during the cast). I have seen her shut out an entire cast several times and they struck the coon in the same spot, she just treed it more than 5 minutes in front of the cast.

She is also the dog that taught me coons grunt, she was putting it on one in a swamp one night and she brung it by the truck. I could hear something breathing hard and grunting and she was right behind it pullin hair. Coon got treed right there within 20 yards of the truck. It was climb or die with her.

Never owned another dog that caught coons on the ground like she did. It didn't seem like a big deal to me at the time cause she was one of the first dogs I owned but I never had one since. Her daughter caught a few (maybe 10 in her life) but nothing like her momma.

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Posted by Ghost14 on 06-14-2019 07:22 PM:

I sure would love to see him go right here. You are welcome anytime. Come for a week nov.-feb. Wonít have many pop ups that time a year so I would at least get to watch him run some tracks or catch some tracks that way. In no way am I being a smart butt either. If he can do that here Iíve got a female I sure would like bred to him.
If he has any grit about him, he would be my type of bear dog.

I say right here because my coon donít circle and duck and dodge like a bobcat. At least Iíve never ran a coon long enough for it to make a circle. It would make for an interesting experiment for me anyway.

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