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Once in a Lifetime Dog?

I have never been to a coon hound competition hunt but I like reading about all hunting dogs…this Willy dog winning two world hunts has got me to thinking and I will bring up what my thoughts have been for quite a while on this type of dog...
Early on I had a pup that totally blew my mind when testing pups…his Uncle was a top dog and this pup I called Yeller was giving him a run for the money at 10 months of age…and at 14 months was doing things that were even better than his uncle named Smoke…these two dogs competed hard against each other…one day I just gave Smoke to my brother on account he needed a top dog…since those two dogs I have had really good dogs which were all related….Smoke came from a breeder in San Antonio who also bred thoroughbred race horses…the other dogs were bred in my back yard…I compared my best dogs against Yeller…in my eyes they were close in many ways as far as good hunting dogs are concerned…but years went by and it was hard to decide what was the difference…and then one day it came to me…it was so simple…the difference between a great hunting dog and a once in a lifetime dog is BRAIN POWER…
My thoughts on Willy…
When a dog wins a world championship he is a great dog no matter what…but I think there could be a certain amount of luck for the dog to win amongst other great dogs…but when a dog wins two major hunts the luck diminishes to a very minimum…now we can say the dog is special and I will assume he is a once in a lifetime dog…the added bonus is that his pedigree is excellent as well…
So this dog must have extraordinary brain power and he must be very competitive…he knows what type of dogs he is up against and hunts accordingly…he also knows where and how to look for a coon and has the knack to straighten the track out quickly to get treed…and makes it look easy doing it…

Am I right or am I wrong?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Brains

X2 Right on the money. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Yessir

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THOMAS SANDERS

Are you saying you think this dog in essence sized up his competition and devised a plan on how he was going to beat the competition? If so, that would be hard to swallow.

Hounds (no matter what game they pursue) do what their predisposed genetic makeup, determined at the moment of conception, determines they'll do. Their genetically inherited traits are enhanced when their human companions expose them to an environment whereby these traits are fine tuned through repetitious exposure to the desired game.

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Dan

I don't know about all that but have hunted with a couple that "seemed to be just a bit better than what they were out there with". If you drew really nice dogs; they'd look really good and if you drew junk, well...they looked bad but not quite as bad as the others. Can't explain it but sure looked that way.

What made Willie is simple young man that hunted him 6 nights a week all night long in all conditions in different states and different terrain he has a sister to him that is nice also I have hunted with him a couple times he gets alone with coons not just trees.

Some dogs are competitive and some are not. Some dogs love to compete against other dogs and are at their best when turned loose with another dog. The better the other dog, the better they are. Turn them loose with a sorry dog and they are sorry. Turn them loose with a World Champion and they are World Champions. Turn them loose by themselves and they don't even want to go hunting. Other dogs don't like to compete turn them loose with another dog and they will do their best to get away from the other dog. They are at their best when turned loose by themselves. Now is this genetics or training/environment?

Richard Lambert

Brains and training are the most important factors in what makes a dog the way they are, at least in my opinion. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Dan...I could have it wrong but I am basing what I am saying on the one dog I had named yeller...when he was a younger dog he hunted at his very best each time...as he got older and crippled up he made a quick round when casted out and if he came back you could bet there won't be any hogs in the area...even then he made it look easy...he most always struck first regardless...

Just a quick example...we cast out 4 dogs...one was a Walker dog that kicked rocks in our faces heading out...several dogs followed the walker...yeller cuts into the rice field right away...the Walker didn't even slow down to check out those tracks...after about ten minutes or so yeller comes back and heads to the other dogs because they were working a hog feeding area and were having trouble lining it out...they barked now and then and yeller didn't pay them any mind... we followed yeller and when he makes it to the dogs he makes a dash straight in and he was bayed within about five minutes pretty deep in the woods...how did he know to take his time and still out strike most dogs? I do not think this type of dog makes a a well thought out decision...these type of dogs are born with a higher level of just knowing...call it whatever...but it comes from the brain...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
Are you saying you think this dog in essence sized up his competition and devised a plan on how he was going to beat the competition? If so, that would be hard to swallow.

Hounds (no matter what game they pursue) do what their predisposed genetic makeup, determined at the moment of conception, determines they'll do. Their genetically inherited traits are enhanced when their human companions expose them to an environment whereby these traits are fine tuned through repetitious exposure to the desired game.

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DL NH

I agree with most of your response, and find it to be very accurate. We are in fact taking an animal with inherited traits and exposing it over and over to the game we desire. Some have superior intelligence and master what we want, while others are just so so. When you get that smart dog in the hands of a good trainer is when you see an outstanding dog. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Reuben,

A hound that lacks intelligence but has the innate ability to do what it was bred to do, for me, is not nearly as enjoyable as that special hound that has both. That extra intelligence, which I believe in many cases would be more aptly called biddability, makes a huge difference for the person who wants a dog that can be both a competition dog and a dog you can enjoy as a pleasure hound. Most would probably say I live in an imaginary world but I remember a day when it was possible to have both. I believe money and greed have done all us houndsmen a great disservice in that it has narrowed the vision of many regarding what a truly balanced hound should be.

Dave,

I agree with you regarding a good trainer. Those special hounds when placed in the hands of a human partner that understands how to bring out the best of what that special hound has is a beautiful thing. I think that the men and women that have that ability and understanding are almost as rare as those special hounds/dogs are. It requires devotion, dedication, patience and a love of hounds that is a part of your soul.

My best to you all!

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Dan

quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
Here is the best answer you're going to get on this subject.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

I have been very fortunate and have had 2 so far in my lifetime and they where not related and more than a few that were dang close. The dogs I am hunting now are descendants of the 2nd one , I lost the first one back before we had tracking collars.

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The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

Guys

My hunting partner has an outstanding hound, started easy and never looked back. He is smart as they get, never more than a mild scolding to correct anything. He has mastered coon treeing, I have not heard him pull an off bark, knows exactly where to find a coon and is deadly accurate. My buddy is 80 years old but hunts 6 nights a week and has trained many good hounds, but never owned a dog this smart, he is almost unreal. Brains and a good trainer is a winning combination. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Nt Ch Clearwater Michelob

Mick was my first outstanding dog and probably my best. We trained each other in 1972. I didn't appreciate or understand his level of ability. He had extreme intelligence and desire to please me. He made Nt. Ch. with 3 first place wins when there were 3 hr hunts that drew over 100 dogs entered. I only hunted him in one Nt Ch. cast and he got and chewed up by two aggressive dogs. I thought too much of him to ever allow that to happen again. I hunted him with a lot of the highly advertised dogs in the Midwest hoping to find someone breeding better dogs than the started dog that I'd bought from a dog dealer and the only one to tree a coon on him was Gr. Nt. Ch. Bud Kellers Mike dog of Collins, Mo. He had 5 coon treed on him in nine years and that included split trees. I retired him after he treed two slick trees one night as that made THREE for the year of hunting over 300 nights. You never appreciate what you have until you loose it! He was Incredible Rock and Motley bred. Ken Risley