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-- Lets Talk Grand Masters. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928506037)

Lets Talk Grand Masters.

I think we need an advisor to interpret the rules and define how it will work. Just not sure why rules cannot be written to cover the programs they are wrote for.

This is posted from the UKC website. I am not starting trouble but I have been asked twice this past week the questions I am asking. I am just trying to get it straight and help those that ask me questions.

2018 UKC GRAND MASTERS INVITATIONAL
$20,000 Purse!

All registered owners of those dogs who were entered in a Super Slam in 2018 will be invited to the 2018 UKC Grand Masters Invitational. The event will be held on August 24 & 25, hosted by the Hannas Creek Conservation Club in Liberty, Indiana.

Further details:
a. Limited to 64 dogs.

It says all the dogs entered in an event will be invited but then it says limited to 64 dogs. Who and how are the 64 determined. I read somewhere it was cast winners first then those that entered. In the Bloodlines some clubs are advertising that an entry in their hunt will get you in the Grand Masters. The numbers are not working out for me without some being left on the sideline. How is that determined.

Second questions and I was asked this specifically this past week. You have a buddy at the hunt enter your hound. Then you call and say our truck broke down. Or you called ahead of time and sent information for entry and you call and say your truck broke down. Since you entered do you get invited to the Grand Masters?

Find me an advisor.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

So far, the Grand Masters hunt has never drawn the 64 dogs for a complete entry so no dogs that won or entered a Super Slam have been turned down.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Bruce, first cast winners, then owners who entered/paid entry to Super Slam. Enries will be first come first served when entry's open up for non cast winners.
And if you paid for an entry, you are eligible whether you hunted or not. But as Jim said, they haven't had a full entry yet so all of this doesn't really matter.

Got a feeling this will fill this year..Kinda have awaken some hard core pkc hunters with the purse!

__________________
Home Of Valley Creek Hunting Supply..Dalton Farms Softball and Misty Hollow Kennels 434-865-4868
www.valleycreekhunting.com

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I agree with you John. Been to AO for a few years now but never had a dog in it. But this hunt interest me. Wish there was a qualifying hunt close by.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

quote:

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Originally posted by John B.Dalton
Got a feeling this will fill this year..Kinda have awaken some hard core pkc hunters with the purse!

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Re: .

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I agree with you John. Been to AO for a few years now but never had a dog in it. But this hunt interest me. Wish there was a qualifying hunt close by.

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__________________
Ronnie Stark
662-417-1588
662-473-8413

August 25 RQE Green castle Indiana has one

__________________
George Steffes
Ph 419-212-2538
NT CH PR Southern Soggy Bottom Tilly { Gr ChGrNtCh Pr Ragged Ridge Ripsaw X Gr NT Ch Ragged Ridge Toadie }
CH Nt. Ch.PR Wandering Red & RR Bucksaw (GRCHGRNTCH Raged Ridge Rip X Grand Nite Raged Ridge Toadie )
GRNTCH.GRCh.PR Steffes' Whizz Bang[GRNTCH Big Walnut BooneXGRNTCH Raged Ridge Toadie]
GRCH.Wandering Red Pepper
GRCH.Wandering Red Honeys Sweety Pie

RIP
GR.NT.CH.GR.CH.PR Steffes wandering Red Tinkerbell {GRCHGRNTCH Raged Ridge RipsawXGRNTCH Ragged Ridge Toadie]

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
[B
And if you paid for an entry, you are eligible whether you hunted or not. But as Jim said, they haven't had a full entry yet so all of this doesn't really matter. [/B]

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This should be UKC’s premier hunt.

Further details:
a. Limited to 64 dogs.
b. $5,000 added sponsorship purse guaranteed as minimum payout to overall winner. Otherwise, advertised purse amounts based on full entry and to reflect total number of entry accordingly.
c. $300 entry fee. Advanced entries only. Deadline is Friday, August 10, 2018. Consideration for entry will be given first to the registered owner of a dog who was a cast winner at a Super Slam Series Event; followed by, the owners of a dog entered in a Super Slam who was not a cast winner until the maximum entry of 64 has been met. The dog entered does not have to be the same dog that won a cast at a Super Slam Series Event; however, it must be a dog that is registered to the same Sole Signatory or any one Successor.
d. All rounds to hunt 90 minutes.
e. Round one will be held on Friday. Round one cast winners to receive amount of entry fee. Remaining purse ($15,200, based on full entry) to be paid out to dogs in Final Cast.
f. Semi-Finals and Final Rounds to be held on Saturday night.


Check out more info under C.

All are invited but limited to the first 64 submitted. Maybe that's not the proper way to word it. I'll take full responsibility if it's considered contradicting.

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I guess I should get use to the fact that UKC is Reactionary and not Visionary. It just drives me crazy and the point is I should not even care. But when I see a train wreck fixing to happen, something should be said.

I looked on the web site and saw between April and August, 26 Super Slams scheduled. Just using that number and not the number of Slams from September to April, the numbers don't work out to match the rules without making some or many people mad.

Based on 26 hunts if they draw 10 dogs each. That means a possible 260 dogs to fill 64 slots. That is based upon just enter and your in if you make the first come first serve cut. If at those 26 hunts there are 3 cast winners out of 4 possible at each hunt. There are 75 spots taken by cast winners. This is just from the last half of the year. Say the first half of the year was half that number. That comes out to over 100 cast winners to get 64 dogs from. Where does that put the "just hunt and your in" story that is being advertised in the magazines and stated in the rules.
But UKC won't do anything till someone travels, spends money and follows the printed rules and hunt advertisements and still doesn't have a snowballs chance of getting in the hunt. They then go out and find themselves a good Attorney and us busy bodies will be reading about it on here.

I think the program is perhaps one of the best UKC has come up with. Two things in my opinion will kill it. UKC not seeing the possibilities of growth and putting something in place to handle it with a fair entry system. Or the PKC guys coming over taking the money home and making the UKC guys made enough to stay home. If the program is laid out to accept a larger number, people coming over from anywhere and anywhere that won't hurt it. Let some of the UKC faithful that did what the rules said are sidelined because no one at UKC saw the possibilities and the growth and prepared for it. Things will get ugly.

What am I seeing wrong. If I had the exact numbers and they were a lot lower than my calculations from just the number of hunts I see from april till august. Then maybe I would rethink my position.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

When they get 64 dogs and have to turn some entries away then they will have to make some changes. Until then, they don't have to worry about it. They have made changes each year to try to attract more entries. When they achieve their goal of 64 entries, then they can start limiting entries to cast winners only and eventually final 4 winners only. But that is a long way off if ever.

I have not followed the grand masters events . What is the reason for them not filling? Looks to me that they should fill and with the numbers that Bruce showed earlier I would think they should be able to fill 2 hunts. $300 for a chance at $20'000 pretty good return.

If Allen could figure out the answer to that question, then he could get the Grand Masters filled. Actually, it is $300 for a chance for 4 dogs to win a part of "maybe" $20,000. The other 60 or so dogs only get $0. Maybe most UKC hunters can't take a week off from work, spend $300 entry fee and $500 for travel expenses just to take a shot at trying to beat those Pro Handlers and their high powered comp dogs. It is hard for an amateur to compete with a guy that does it for a living. Maybe UKC should consider that when they do something to attract those Pro's then they are squeezing out their amateur base at the same time.

Always behind the eight ball imo.

__________________
Mark

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Richard you paint a picture of negativity that i just dont understand. Back a couple years ago when i could travel more. I saw you at several large hunts. Either you were lost or saw value, I dont know. The entry fees were about 200 a niight and you were smiling when I saw you. If I have you mistaken with someone else I apologize.
In coonhunting it is all about that carrot that is dangled in front of you. The carrot might be dangled by a pup making its first bark or tree and you cant wait for it to make the next on so you keep taking him back to the woods. The carrot might br a trophy or a cash prize or picture or name. We all have different carrots we chase. I had an older man thAt visits this board on a regular basis that he had just one goal or carrot. That is another wc ring. When you hear an older person talk with enthusium about their dreams and hear the determination in their voice to reach their dreams. It sets a positive mood for a lot of good thingd to happen. I know if you asked me, would I rather win the Grand Masters or AO’s. The GM would be my choice. It is not really the money over the trophy but I think the format of the hunt is better. I just feel we all chase different carrots and feels someone eles is just as inportany to them as mine are to me.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If Allen could figure out the answer to that question, then he could get the Grand Masters filled. Actually, it is $300 for a chance for 4 dogs to win a part of "maybe" $20,000. The other 60 or so dogs only get $0. Maybe most UKC hunters can't take a week off from work, spend $300 entry fee and $500 for travel expenses just to take a shot at trying to beat those Pro Handlers and their high powered comp dogs. It is hard for an amateur to compete with a guy that does it for a living. Maybe UKC should consider that when they do something to attract those Pro's then they are squeezing out their amateur base at the same time.

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Tar the point is we are all in the same boat. Yes this sport is hard. Either in your own backyard or across the country. All aspects of the sport are challenging, costely and when you get old or burnt out there is a spot in your own backyard for you still to enjoy the sport. Just no sence in getting old, tired or broke and then want to tear down what you lived most of your life for and enjoyed your whole life. When the day comes and it comes for everyone to pull back. Dont blame it on the kc’s or the young hunters ore the entry fees. Just pull back but still encourage those that are chasing a carrot like you did for many years. Think most would say the carrott doesnt taste as good once you get a taste if it. But the chase was fun. Take about any hobby and break it down into dollars and cents and they are all over priced. When someone trys to accomplish something and then dont. I hate to see them condem those that have done well. Many do well and help those that dont. Many dont do well but respect those that do. That is the picture of respect for a sport. Putting down those that do well because you either have got to old or just cant do it is not having respect for anyone including yourself.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Bruce, I was not as smart back then and had a lot more money. I am not trying to be negative. I thought that I was just stating some pretty obvious facts. And my opinions are just that. They only make sense to me and no one else (besides Tar) pays any attention to them anyway. It sounded to me like you were being awfully negative in your posts.

.

Negative yes but to the point of seeing what i feel is a good program without a proper future laid out for it. If anything is going to be successful you chart the path for its growth. You dont wait and offend many of your customers with an “I’am sorry we didnt seeing it growing that fast or that large”. That was the point i was trying to be negative towards.

__________________
www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Ok now I will agree with you. I agree you have people that have paid into ukc ' programs for years and if they scrape up the entry to hunt in a slam they supported the kc. And earned the right to hunt. Now add in $20,000 whoa nelly now mr big chits and his paid handler get interested they win a slam and there's a problem only 64 get to hunt and 164 are qualified who gets to hunt now the kc's in the past have made sure mr big chits got to hunt because on down the road it created more revenue for them where little Johnny awwww make him mad who cares buuuuuuut with the stud dog thing at an all time low guess who is paying the bills now and the kc's know it !!! Now whether I want to be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond don't mean crap if a business goes to loosing money faster than it comes in they are going to step back take a hard look and start taking care of the one that brought them to the dance. Like I asked you who buys more lights from you mr big chits or do you give him a light and write it of or does dollar for dollar at the end of the year the little johnnnys turn more profit. One kc done pissed the little johnnnys off to the point the mr big chits ain't paying the bills. Structure this hunt where it's fair to everybody and they all get a shot jmo.

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Bruce I agree with Richard let's look at the whole picture how many dog papers and entry fees does little Johnny pay for that never gets over 200 miles at the most from the house and breeds and raises his own dogs out of mr big chits high powered dog and averages probly going to 4 hunts a month. Compared to mr big chits might go to 4 of the big ukc hunts a year and take little johnnnys stud fee and pays the high entry and never raises a pup see it looks from the outside that mr big chits Is a big supporter when in all reality dollar for dollar little Johnny at the end of the year contributes more. Who buys more of your lights the little johnnnys or the mr big chits ?



Tar

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Look at the 3 dogs/owners/handlers that have won the Grand Masters so far and then tell me why you are all in a sweat about Mr Bigchits paid professional handlers.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Look at the 3 dogs/owners/handlers that have won the Grand Masters so far and then tell me why you are all in a sweat about Mr Bigchits paid professional handlers.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.