UKC Forums - Training

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Posted by AKE on 09-30-2019 02:22 AM:

Training

What is something that you do while training your pup or pups that you think is the secret to success?

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 09-30-2019 03:03 AM:

Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by AKE
What is something that you do while training your pup or pups that you think is the secret to success?

Never let a young dog chew on a coon it didn't tree either first or alone.

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Posted by pamjohnson on 09-30-2019 02:25 PM:

The main thing is time in the woods. Sure wish I had a easier way but I haven't found it yet.

Posted by Leon Keys on 10-01-2019 01:01 AM:

Let them mature to a point where they can get over a bad experience before you start hunting them. We try to avoid them but things happen.
-
Set them up for success the first few hunts....buckets, honey hole, open, familiar woods. Keep hunts to an hour or less if possible.
-
If your gonna hunt them with another dog, try to make it a dog they are familiar and comfortable with...( and that you can trust)
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Once you start hunting and correcting, be consistent....
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Remember to be reasonably patient and have fun watching them learn! Hope you find this helpful!

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Posted by CHEWBACH on 10-01-2019 01:14 AM:

Be honest with myself. they all want make it. know when to give up.

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Posted by wildwilly0161 on 10-01-2019 07:33 PM:

Scent Wiring !!!

Scent Wiring is the #1 place to start because it is the first step that All-natural K-9 preditors go through in the wild,so they may survive.
When a wolf has a litter of pups Momy goes right to work teaching them many things. The first thing she teaches is Scent Wiring!

When a wild K-9 brings her Kill into the den to eat, the pups start nursing and while they nurse they are smelling Mom's favorite food! The smell of the Wanted Game is therefor imprinted on the pups because their bellies get full of milk!!

This is how wild Dams actually teach their litter to hunt the food that she likes to eat.

It is a Survival of the Fittest scent training technique I developed years ago. All domesticated Hounds miss out on these real fine scent training scenarios, so I developed simple ways to recreate them for every aspect of our sport!

Along with a few daytime field trips try this !!!
Find a lean meat treat that she goes crazy for! (Pay Treat=momies milk)
Cut her Pay treats into very small peices and mix them thouroughly with her dog food.
Apply Quality Coon sent all over the outside of the food bowl and let her Eat!

Repeat the combination of feeding the added Pay treats and Coon scent 2 to 3 times a week for 2 weeks.

Then she will Be Scent Wired !!! This is how I start a Once in a Liftime Hound Everytime, by recreating True survival instincks that all wild K-9's rely on to survive!!!

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Posted by Reuben on 10-01-2019 09:31 PM:

WildWilly...
Many years ago I was reading an article something similar to what you are talking about...the writer said, if the mama while pregnant is trailing a hot coon track and she is opening on track and getting excited...the adrenaline is flowing, she is inhaling the coon scent...as she inhales it some of those scent particles get picked up through the lungs into the bloodstream and the pups will receive these hormones and become natural hunting dogs...of course he followed through with his story to mention treeing and fighting the coon...

At the very beginning I thought it was too far out there but as I read I started to believe...hook line and sinker...

I use hunger to my advantage...when pups are 5 weeks old I let them out in the yard before feeding...then I throw a wild hog head in the middle of the yard... I let them tear it up and do this 4 or five times over a month...I don’t let them overeat to the point they look like watermelons... I take it away while they want more...

There is a new field called Epigenetics...it was discovered not quite 100 years ago and is now gaining interest from all over the world by various scientists...the possibility of many cures and treatments are possible with the Epigenetics technology...

Once upon a time it was common knowledge that you were born with your genes that were set as was your DNA...through experiments they have found that certain environments can change the outcome of how the next generation will be according to that environment and now they say certain environmental changes can be passed for three generations...

Somethings can be passed on from the fathers side and some things from the mothers side...

I do not really understand how it works...but this is what I think I understand...around your DNA their are genes...some are turned on and some are turned off...through normal every day living and training our pups will act a certain way and will grow up a certain way and will require a certain amount of training to make a coon dog because of the normal environment they are raised in...if we were to change the environment like you and I are talking about then this is what could be happening...it is Epigenetics at work...certain genes will turn off and others turn on and the results are what you are saying...the environmental changes can be to sire and dam or with the pups...I tell folks Epigenetics is not new it is a part of Mother Nature...the thing is that we are starting to understand it and we can manipulate the environment to get better results in the pups and sometimes this can go on for several generations...that might explain why some folks on here say that their pups are natural coon dogs...

When we change the environment for the sire and dam in a positive way it is possible that this can be passed down to the pups...and when we do positive environmental changes for the pups then when the pups are given the right exposure and training and we say wow...this was a great litter...most of the pups took to coon hunting like a baby duck takes to water...this could be the difference between winning the world hunt or coming in second...

I know a woman that craved jalapeño peppers the whole time she was pregnant...when her son was about two years old he reached over from his high chair and grabbed one and ate it like he was eating a candy bar...I seen him eating Birdseye peppers like they were candy when he was about 4 years old... no sweating no tears and no red face...

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Posted by AKE on 10-01-2019 10:08 PM:

Wildwilly

I was wondering if anybody was gonna say something like that.
I had a pup that I got when he was about 3 months old and I had read in and old full cry book and coon scent mixed in their food. I squirted a couple squirts of coon scent on his food everyday when I fed him for a little while. I did more than that as well all the usual stuff but he turned out to be the best dog I ever owned. I've never tried the coon scent on the food with another pup since he just died a last year but I just got another one and I believe I'll do it again.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-02-2019 02:44 AM:

Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by AKE
What is something that you do while training your pup or pups that you think is the secret to success?

Letting them run loose as young pups.
The rest wouldn't be secrets if posted here.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-02-2019 03:50 AM:

Never forget that they are just pups.

Posted by Preacher Tom on 10-02-2019 04:25 AM:

Well I'm pretty sure the secret for training a pup is don't do anything I do.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 10-02-2019 12:00 PM:

Next question you should ask is how many times have you turned a weaned puppy into a consistent coon treer and cast winner.

The thing about the internet is that there are no requirements for giving advice.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-02-2019 12:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Next question you should ask is how many times have you turned a weaned puppy into a consistent coon treer and cast winner.

The thing about the internet is that there are no requirements for giving advice.

More times than you are old.

Tar

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-02-2019 12:43 PM:

Josh, I have turned several weaned pups into consistent coon tree's. Just can't get the consistent cast winner part down. That is why I read these boards. To see what I am doing wrong. The picture gets clearer everyday.

Pups like to roam and if you have a place to let them get confidence in exploring the woods. That is GREAT.
Buddy has a couple 4 month old pups he got from me. His land borders a neighbor who has several hundred acres. My buddy has pens and a fenced area around his pens. He was letting the pups stay in the fenced area. His neighbor has a deer feeder and the pups started showing up on pictures at the feeder. That feeder is 1/2 mile into the woods. My buddy never suspected his pups had found a way out of his yard as every time he checked on them they would be back home in the yard. One thing that was noticed from all the pictures is the female seemed to be the leader. She was always in front of the male and always the one standing up on the feeder trying to figure our what had been eating out of it. Plenty of coon on the feeder and deer. So she is has a choice to make. LOL

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-02-2019 12:52 PM:

Bruce in theory josh didn’t say you had to win the cast just as long as sombody took them after you trained them and won the cast I think it covers things.

Tar

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 10-02-2019 01:19 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Josh, I have turned several weaned pups into consistent coon tree's. Just can't get the consistent cast winner part down. That is why I read these boards. To see what I am doing wrong. The picture gets clearer everyday.

Pups like to roam and if you have a place to let them get confidence in exploring the woods. That is GREAT.
Buddy has a couple 4 month old pups he got from me. His land borders a neighbor who has several hundred acres. My buddy has pens and a fenced area around his pens. He was letting the pups stay in the fenced area. His neighbor has a deer feeder and the pups started showing up on pictures at the feeder. That feeder is 1/2 mile into the woods. My buddy never suspected his pups had found a way out of his yard as every time he checked on them they would be back home in the yard. One thing that was noticed from all the pictures is the female seemed to be the leader. She was always in front of the male and always the one standing up on the feeder trying to figure our what had been eating out of it. Plenty of coon on the feeder and deer. So she is has a choice to make. LOL

Bruce I like to sell them as soon as they get good at treeing coons alone. Let someone else do all the hard work. Pups that leave my place do win, and some I keep have done okay, but the hardest part is getting a dog ready to be in a cast, not getting a dog to tree coons alone.

But how many times have you seen someone giving training advice on the internet and you know all they have ever had in their lives is junk? Or every good dog they have had someone else trained. People need to be careful about listening to internet trainers

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-02-2019 01:29 PM:

One mans junk is anouther mans treasure !

You ain’t never had no junk all yours are top shelf bet I could find holes in them.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-02-2019 01:29 PM:

People need to be careful and consider the source of any advice that they get on the internet.

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-02-2019 01:41 PM:

Not disagreeing with you about internet advice. First and foremost is we share the "How to Train" a puppy when we have never seen the puppy and its actions. Actions speak louder than words. A dogs actions speak louder to me than how someone tries to describe them when asking for help. Thing is we only have the persons words to go by. That is why I try and give conservative advice. Because there is always more to the "Story".

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 10-02-2019 01:47 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Not disagreeing with you about internet advice. First and foremost is we share the "How to Train" a puppy when we have never seen the puppy and its actions. Actions speak louder than words. A dogs actions speak louder to me than how someone tries to describe them when asking for help. Thing is we only have the persons words to go by. That is why I try and give conservative advice. Because there is alway more to the "Story".

Bruce for the most part I agree. Most people do not even realize what their dog is doing in order to describe it anyways.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-02-2019 02:33 PM:

Oh my goodness, now that may be part of the problem. Not only do you have to consider the source of the advice but you have to consider the source of the question.

Posted by N Williams on 10-02-2019 03:17 PM:

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Bruce for the most part I agree. Most people do not even realize what their dog is doing in order to describe it anyways.

I’ve learned this the hard way from buying a lot of dogs. That hunting hard, being 70% accurate, recurring off a tree right, and especially indepence are very opinionated topics. My opionion of hunting hard makes most people cring. Being 70% is world class most say you need to cull one. And independence doesn’t mean that they want back. If you got one that splits 600 yards and you say that’s normal that’s independence.

Posted by N Williams on 10-02-2019 03:17 PM:

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Bruce for the most part I agree. Most people do not even realize what their dog is doing in order to describe it anyways.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 10-02-2019 03:26 PM:

Re: Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by N Williams
I’ve learned this the hard way from buying a lot of dogs. That hunting hard, being 70% accurate, recurring off a tree right, and especially indepence are very opinionated topics. My opionion of hunting hard makes most people cring. Being 70% is world class most say you need to cull one. And independence doesn’t mean that they want back. If you got one that splits 600 yards and you say that’s normal that’s independence.

Independent dogs back. They may not know another dog is even there when they do it, but they will back. You'll see a truly independent dog not try and get away from dogs, but do the same thing they do when they are cut by themselves. There is a difference between an independent dog and a loner.

Loners are social retards. They jealous tree, run away from dogs, and do other things to be positive they are alone. I dont mind either personally, but to me there is a difference

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Posted by wildwilly0161 on 10-02-2019 08:01 PM:

AKE / Ruban

Oh my, now we're getting into the good stuff !!
What you speak of is Called Neural Impresioning. It is not only real it IS the Language that all K-9 preditors use to teach all of their Offspring.
I have been using and Developing this wild form of training for over 35 years and I understand it in High in Definition. This form of True K-9 communication runs throughout my entire training methods !! I simply use all forms of Survival of the Fittest, fine Scent training that all preditors must learn to survive in the Wild !!!

And just like Momy, my first step IS Neral Impresioning / Scent Wiring!

This is because K-9 Genetics are designed by nature to change due to Environment!
Genetics and environment go hand in hand, this is why so many Hounds do not Hunt the same when changing homes/owners, from North to the South and vice versa.

Wild Coy Dogs are amoung the most successful predators on Earth! According to mainstream beliefs, Domesticated Dogs can not survive on their own. However I have been studying these Dogs for decades and I have blended all these survival skills with my art of obedience traing to achieve true animal extensions of myself.

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