UKC Forums - Stationary Rule Clarification

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Posted by Coby Wright on 09-30-2019 12:38 AM:

Stationary Rule Clarification

This is a two part question.

1) Can stationary time be started on a dog with less than 5 minutes left in hunt?

2) If stationary rule is applied and dog isn't called treed by the handler what are the consequences? Does judge go in and score tree accordingly or is dog scratched?

This came up in a cast I was involved in this weekend and the judge applied the stationary rule to my dog with 5 minutes and 20 seconds left in the cast. My dog moved which broke the stationary. He starting locating another tree and the judge started the stationary again with about 3 minutes left in hunt. He eventually moved and it was broke then another dog was treed near him with about 40 seconds left in the hunt which stopped him from trying to apply the stationary to me again.

The judge told me he could apply the stationary at any time even with only 1 second left in the hunt then go in and score my tree accordingly after the 5 minutes passed. I thought this was a wrong interpretation.

I know you can't start the 8 minutes on track with less than 8 minutes left in hunt so I thought this would apply to the stationary rule as well. I also thought a dog was scratched if not called treed within 5 minutes if stationary was applied (unless they move or shut up for 2 minutes).

Please clarify for me if you can. Thanks for your help.

Cheers,
Coby

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Posted by jkidd1 on 09-30-2019 01:05 AM:

If the stationary is put on your dog and after the 5mins stationary has expired and the dog is indeed found to be treed, the handler is scratched.

As far as the the other part, if there's less than 5mins left in the hunt it will never catch the dog, so let that judge wear his watch out. When that hunt time runs out, that dog can no longer be scored unless you treed him before hunt time expires.

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Posted by wart on 09-30-2019 01:16 AM:

Treed

It sounds like the judge was trying to unnerve you and get you to make a call the last few minutes of the cast like the other post says let him wear his watch out

Posted by Coby Wright on 09-30-2019 01:22 AM:

Thanks Jeremy and Wart for the clarification.

It did happen that if I took a tree minus the judge would have won the cast instead of me.

Furthermore, does "treed" also count if dog is found in say a ground hole or cave or something of that nature?

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Posted by jkidd1 on 09-30-2019 02:23 AM:

The rule says "Judge must verify dog to be at a tree before it can be scratched." The rule is specific that the dog can only be scratched if it is at a tree, not a fence, a hole or a vine.

Posted by Jim Frederick on 09-30-2019 02:39 AM:

i personally dont like this rule if a guy wants to stand there and let his dog tree and burn up his dogs time let him tree my gets on the wood i will tree him if he is waiting on dog 2 to get there he needs to stay home and work on his dog!!

Posted by Rocketman55 on 09-30-2019 02:46 AM:

This is one of the most abused rules on the books as far as I'm concerned. With less than 5 minutes this rule should not be applied and if you have a judge trying to do so, simply ask to put a question on the card.

Since this judge was behind in winning the cast he/she was trying to give you minus points so that they would win. It is a shameful maneuver and I have had it done to me with more than 5 minutes in a cast, and it was intentionally applied to give out undo minus points in order to give the jude an unfair advantage. This rule is just as poor, as this new babbling rule that some of our breed reps voted to apply.

This is a rule that needs addressed, as it is MOST often used to simply give out minus points in order to give a judge or any other person an undue advantage. Again I say it is a SHAMEFUL act of handling/judging.

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Posted by Rolin Blues on 09-30-2019 03:58 AM:

Rocketman55

Would agree it could use a little fine tuning, but does serve a purpose. That being said, it should be used for a dog that is treed, but handler don't want to tree it for a specific reason:

1- dog didn't locate right, but continues to tree, so handler won't tree because he knows tree is probably slick.

2- dog uses different tree mouth on tree, so handler hopes it leaves before he has to go look @ off-game. Had a buddy a few years ago that had bawl mouth tree dog, BUT when it treed a possum, it would use hard chop on tree. He finally did some 'homework' to correct issue.

Everyone is right, judge can never apply stationary rule with less than 5 minutes left to hunt. Also, it should not be applied, if dog has been treed off in another area & cast will have to make major move to score a tree, because judge can't tell if dog that has stationary rule applied stops bark for 2 minutes or maybe even moves to different area, while cast is walking away from said dog. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Coby Wright on 09-30-2019 04:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkidd1
The rule says "Judge must verify dog to be at a tree before it can be scratched." The rule is specific that the dog can only be scratched if it is at a tree, not a fence, a hole or a vine.

Thanks for clearing that up.

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Posted by Coby Wright on 09-30-2019 04:40 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Frederick
i personally dont like this rule if a guy wants to stand there and let his dog tree and burn up his dogs time let him tree my gets on the wood i will tree him if he is waiting on dog 2 to get there he needs to stay home and work on his dog!!

Everyone has different handling styles. In this instance the hunt was about to end and strategically it made no sense to tree my dog. I could only lose by being shut out on a coon or by taking at least 125 minus. So I had nothing to gain and everything to lose.

Also, I know my dog and he was simply on some Creek banks. This was just a last ditch effort for the judge to win the cast. My dog does need some work but that's not relevant to this particular situation.

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Posted by Coby Wright on 09-30-2019 04:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
This is one of the most abused rules on the books as far as I'm concerned. With less than 5 minutes this rule should not be applied and if you have a judge trying to do so, simply ask to put a question on the card.

Since this judge was behind in winning the cast he/she was trying to give you minus points so that they would win. It is a shameful maneuver and I have had it done to me with more than 5 minutes in a cast, and it was intentionally applied to give out undo minus points in order to give the jude an unfair advantage. This rule is just as poor, as this new babbling rule that some of our breed reps voted to apply.

This is a rule that needs addressed, as it is MOST often used to simply give out minus points in order to give a judge or any other person an undue advantage. Again I say it is a SHAMEFUL act of handling/judging.

Thanks Dave! I agree.

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Posted by Coby Wright on 09-30-2019 04:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Rolin Blues
Would agree it could use a little fine tuning, but does serve a purpose. That being said, it should be used for a dog that is treed, but handler don't want to tree it for a specific reason:

1- dog didn't locate right, but continues to tree, so handler won't tree because he knows tree is probably slick.

2- dog uses different tree mouth on tree, so handler hopes it leaves before he has to go look @ off-game. Had a buddy a few years ago that had bawl mouth tree dog, BUT when it treed a possum, it would use hard chop on tree. He finally did some 'homework' to correct issue.

Everyone is right, judge can never apply stationary rule with less than 5 minutes left to hunt. Also, it should not be applied, if dog has been treed off in another area & cast will have to make major move to score a tree, because judge can't tell if dog that has stationary rule applied stops bark for 2 minutes or maybe even moves to different area, while cast is walking away from said dog. Take care, Ron.

Thanks Ron!

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Posted by DOGSSTRICK on 10-07-2019 05:15 PM:

You cant run a 5 on a dog if there isn't 5 left in the hunt the only thing that can be done after the hunt time elapse is score tree calls that were made during hunting time.If that was the case then you could tree after the hunt time expires and hed have to take it also

Posted by Coby Wright on 10-07-2019 10:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by DOGSSTRICK
You cant run a 5 on a dog if there isn't 5 left in the hunt the only thing that can be done after the hunt time elapse is score tree calls that were made during hunting time.If that was the case then you could tree after the hunt time expires and hed have to take it also

I agree. That was my initial thought as well. I just needed clarification because I wasn't involved in the scene for several years and wasn't sure if things had changed.

Thanks for your help.

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