UKC Forums - We talk about Loaners and breeding them today.

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-- We talk about Loaners and breeding them today. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928524220)

Posted by yadkintar on 11-18-2019 06:03 PM:

Good I will call Allen tell him we are going to start having one dog hunts now you tree coon winner winner chicken dinner no need to draw no more.

You take 100% of the plus and the minus.

Tar

Posted by wildwilly0161 on 11-20-2019 08:42 PM:

Loanners

Nice post Bruce! We breed heavy for indipendence in our Hounds today. We need it to win hunts and impress freinds. There are more loaners out there today than I ever remember before but they have always been here! This is because Loaners are simply Pack leader / Alpha males and Females. They are born to eat / hunt alone!! Years ago you were lucky to get one alpha of each sex per litter. However after years of breeding for indipenecy in hounds we are raising whole litters of indipendent Alph's.
Thing is when it comes to all Dog's we canot seperate indipenency from Pack leadership mentality, because this is from where it stems!!!
they Are one and the same thing.

I breed for indipenecy every time, with no worries because all we have to do is discipline each Hound over a highly wanted food while they age. Giving them the food as a reward after each disipline. (as all wild K-9 preditors do)
then I become a true Pack Leader to my Pack leader and I enjoy hunting True Alpha's as they are also born to provide more Food and do tree more Coon !!!!

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Posted by Dave Richards on 11-20-2019 11:41 PM:

Wildwilly

Excellent post . Dave

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 11-21-2019 02:26 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dean jamerson
Hunted with Tar Hill Henry in early 90’s he was by himself with a coon, in fact he made a point to go the opposite direction of what every thing else did the night I hunted with him. I had a Nailor bred bitch that never made a tree with a dog from the first time she treed till i sold her, she might be 20 yards or or she might have been 1/2 mile but she was always by herself. I think these dogs have always been around, it just took someone to recognize the benefit of hunting this type of hound. I like one to do their on work, pack hunts often turn into calling contest, and if you are alone you dont have to deal with the tree jackers and the yackers around the tree. I see way more benefit to be alone than to be packed up.

Dean I really don't disagree with anything you said but there is another side of it. Been years since I comp hunted but back then most dogs did pack and there is something special when your dog takes the track out and finds the tree and the others are playing catch up. I guess I will always like the dog that can do that better than the one that gets off by himself and trees a coon.

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 11-21-2019 02:26 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by dean jamerson
Hunted with Tar Hill Henry in early 90’s he was by himself with a coon, in fact he made a point to go the opposite direction of what every thing else did the night I hunted with him. I had a Nailor bred bitch that never made a tree with a dog from the first time she treed till i sold her, she might be 20 yards or or she might have been 1/2 mile but she was always by herself. I think these dogs have always been around, it just took someone to recognize the benefit of hunting this type of hound. I like one to do their on work, pack hunts often turn into calling contest, and if you are alone you dont have to deal with the tree jackers and the yackers around the tree. I see way more benefit to be alone than to be packed up.

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Posted by yadkinriver on 11-21-2019 11:09 AM:

Tom I agree with you 100% but I also like to hunt my dog by itself enough that it has enough confidence in itself to finish what it started no matter what the other dogs are doing. But I always felt a lot of pride to hear my dog take the track away from the others and get there firtest with the mostest.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-21-2019 01:44 PM:

There is no better feeling.

Posted by 2ol2hunt on 11-21-2019 03:04 PM:

Yep

Posted by Mike Knuckols on 11-25-2019 05:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Here is a history lesson for all of the youngsters. Mr Conkey knows exactly what happened.
The loaners came about because so much tree was bred into dogs, they just treed up every tree in the woods. Since they were pack dogs, if one dog looked up a tree they all just locked down. Some say that it came to a head or maybe was just blamed on Rat Attack.
Some breeders (Barry Kiddy) had enough of this so they started developing and breeding dogs that were independant, accurate and would not tree with the others who were usually slick.
This took some time. It didn't happen in 5 or 10 years. These dogs have evolved into today's deep and alone dogs. It seems that when we try to change or "better" our dogs, we don't know where to stop. And if a certain style of dog starts winning, everyone jumps on board.

There are very very few natural loaners around . Ive seen only a couple that are natural loaners . Im sure everyone will chime up about all these loaners . The truth is if people start their pups and get them all running and treeing they then spend the rest of their time setting them up to stop them from covering / backing . Its going against nature . Hounds are pack animals . Not to say they aren't independent when they get their own track going . Dogs or the better ones would always split tree and hold pressure. I believe the loaner dogs out there , 90 % of them are man made , all in how you train them . Most started out following their momma or an old pup trainer . I could be wrong but don't think so . The loaner dog craze around here started around early 2000's . I first started seeing the guys setting their dogs up around 2008 . There is one dog around here that's a natural loaner . Combs Wheeler . quite a few of his pups are or have loaner traits and can be easily persuaded to be loaners . no one likes their hound to quit and run 600 yards to back another hound but most of the se loaners are trained that way and in the near future we wont have woods to hold them

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