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-- We talk about Loaners and breeding them today. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928524220)

The Ghost is exactly right. There is a difference between an independent dog and a dead loner or old deep and alone. Hunters started out breeding for independence and ended up with dead loners. We used to call the dead loaners, "independent to a fault". Is it time to roll back some of that deep and alone?

On another note, Tarbaby that "cover late get ate syndrome" comes from old deep and alone being a social retard. Maybe those handlers with those t-shirts are just like their dogs.

I read Ghost14's post 4 times and I like it more each time I read it. Except maybe his last sentence. Good football teams "kneel it" when the win is in the bag.

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Donald Bergeron

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
And independent dogs are not dead loners.

Independent dogs will be second sometimes, and get covered without being bothered.

Dead loners are social retards.

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Get a Good One

This is not exactly on point but it is something I would like to know. How many punish a dog for coming into a tree? Have seen it done and wonder how common it is. I admit sometimes I have considered it with my dog because his biggest fault can be covering on a slick. Doesn't do it often but he does sometimes.

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Tom Wood

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I know some people that will never out a coon to their dog if another dog is on the tree with it. They want a coon they will be alone.

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www.ConkeysOutdoors.com
"Boss Lights"

Re: .

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I know some people that will never out a coon to their dog if another dog is on the tree with it. They want a coon they will be alone.

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
This is not exactly on point but it is something I would like to know. How many punish a dog for coming into a tree? Have seen it done and wonder how common it is. I admit sometimes I have considered it with my dog because his biggest fault can be covering on a slick. Doesn't do it often but he does sometimes.

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www.joydogfood.com
Fueled by Joy Podcast

Re: .

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
I know some people that will never out a coon to their dog if another dog is on the tree with it. They want a coon they will be alone.

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I stop mine from covering before they get to the tree. The collar will change their mind. But, from time to time some of the hard heads still come in and one has to send them from that tree with corrections. If they have intelligence they learn from the experience that the collar means change course.

I only do that though if the dog is truly just coming to cover IE, 500 yards other way and heard a dog treed and starts scrambling that way. That to me is a covering dog

Like Josh mine do not chew on fur with another dog.

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Get a Good One

When I think of dogs in the 80s and 90s that were often deep and alone, I think of Red Eagle Dick dogs and some Lone Pine dogs. Don't get me wrong the Dick dogs were coon dogs. They could sure get out of the pocket fast! That is what we called it back then. I know my buddy and I raised several Lone Pine dogs, and they were all silent and deep and lonely dogs. I know from other experiences this wasn't always the case with Lone Pine dogs.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

Josh Michaelis

I agree that independent dogs are not bothered by being covered, I want an independent dog that's indifferent to what the other dogs do. I do not want a dead loner. While you may have reasons for saying brains are over rated, I put brains first on my list. I don't have multiply handlers, so that's not a problem for me or my dogs. Some dogs don't care who the handler is, while some dogs perform better for a certain handler, I want mine to perform for me. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Ole deep and alone wouldn’t have lived long before we had tracking systems. You don’t believe me let a kc say they stopped the usage of tracking systems and watch the screaming start lol.


Tar

Just one more thought on independent. Back in the early 70's in western OKLA there weren't many coon. I think our coon population works in favor of independent dogs. There is a coon to find no matter which way they go.

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Tom Wood

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Originally posted by shadinc
I read Ghost14's post 4 times and I like it more each time I read it. Except maybe his last sentence. Good football teams "kneel it" when the win is in the bag.

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Mountain bred hogs require Mountain
bred dogs.

It’s not crazy in my opinion to correct one for coming from 500 yards away.
If that dog wanted to tree a coon with that dog it should have been there from the beginning. Not going some other way and then locking up and running to the treed dog as a crutch.

I will agree though if that dog is consistently getting struck and treed ahead of mine then I don’t have much to win with.

I no genius nor to I encourage anyone to hunt the way I do or think I should. I just like these common country coondogs.

I am 100% for anyone to hunt what they like how they like.

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Get a Good One

Ghost14

So many folks questioned the ability of Night Champion and Grand Night Champions to actually tree a coon by themselves that the HTX PROGRAM was put in place as a way of folks proving their dogs could tree coons by themselves. The HTX Program was never intended to be a competition, only a proving ground. Myself, I want a dog that trees coons as they come to them, cold, hot or layup coons, a coon dog will do that. The new no leash lock rule should negate the deep and lonely babbling type dogs that strike first and tree a mile deep. I think we will start seeing winners that tree coons that the deep and lonely dogs ran over trying to get away from the other dogs. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Ghost14

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
So many folks questioned the ability of Night Champion and Grand Night Champions to actually tree a coon by themselves that the HTX PROGRAM was put in place as a way of folks proving their dogs could tree coons by themselves. The HTX Program was never intended to be a competition, only a proving ground. Myself, I want a dog that trees coons as they come to them, cold, hot or layup coons, a coon dog will do that. The new no leash lock rule should negate the deep and lonely babbling type dogs that strike first and tree a mile deep. I think we will start seeing winners that tree coons that the deep and lonely dogs ran over trying to get away from the other dogs. Dave

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Ole deep and alone wouldn’t have lived long before we had tracking systems. You don’t believe me let a kc say they stopped the usage of tracking systems and watch the screaming start lol.


Tar

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I had a real nice dog when I first started. He treed a coon somewhere every time that you turned him loose. He had a huge mouth and opened good on track. But if I didnt hear him strike within 10 minutes, I got back in my vehicle and started driving around listening for him. Most of my coonhunting was spent looking for my dog. I was much younger then and didn't mind spending a lot of time walking. We didn't have near as many houses either. I sure wouldn't keep/hunt him now.

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Originally posted by high ridge
It’s not crazy in my opinion to correct one for coming from 500 yards away.
If that dog wanted to tree a coon with that dog it should have been there from the beginning. Not going some other way and then locking up and running to the treed dog as a crutch.

I will agree though if that dog is consistently getting struck and treed ahead of mine then I don’t have much to win with.

I no genius nor to I encourage anyone to hunt the way I do or think I should. I just like these common country coondogs.

I am 100% for anyone to hunt what they like how they like.

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Donald Bergeron

Mongo

Richard wasn't the old mongo dog you had a closer, busy, smart hunter that treed a lot of coon by himself that lots of dogs ran past? Seems like he had a good reputation and you won quite a bit of money with him.

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***(POACHER PLOTT HOUNDS)***

*NT.CH. MOSES' RUGGED RIDGE POACHER*

*GR.NT.CH. MOSES' PRETTYBOY POACHER*

*FCH CH GRNITECH SHATLEY LOBO*

http://www.poacherplotthounds.com/

Kevin, that was back in the "good old days". Mongo treed every coon in the woods that you sent him into.

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Originally posted by shadinc
You like a common country coondog that won't get on a tree with his kennel mate? Hmmmmmm.

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__________________
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www.joydogfood.com
Fueled by Joy Podcast

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Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I like them better than a dog that does tree with his kennel mate.

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Hunted with Tar Hill Henry in early 90’s he was by himself with a coon, in fact he made a point to go the opposite direction of what every thing else did the night I hunted with him. I had a Nailor bred bitch that never made a tree with a dog from the first time she treed till i sold her, she might be 20 yards or or she might have been 1/2 mile but she was always by herself. I think these dogs have always been around, it just took someone to recognize the benefit of hunting this type of hound. I like one to do their on work, pack hunts often turn into calling contest, and if you are alone you dont have to deal with the tree jackers and the yackers around the tree. I see way more benefit to be alone than to be packed up.

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Dean Jamerson