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Posted by nextcoonhunters on 06-09-2018 06:33 PM:

rulers a new one on me

still looking to find a way to say the guy is wrong but as of yet can't find it. heard of a guy at a hunt who said the judge didn't have to hear his dog strike or tree that was his call not the judges. I thought it would have been black and white but broke out the rulebook and can't say without a doubt his wrong. how about you older, wiser, ruler experts what ruler would you point him to? rule 6 j shows that the judge can do something if the dog isn't struck, 6 k if he strikes another person's dog, and 6 o if he doesn't tree his dog. I would have assumed the 8 being broke would have said the judge hearing but it don't. The rule he is using is 9 judges to be honest and capable of keeping the score just as it is given to them by the handlers, and 8a under handlers responsibility so what ruler and what and where in the ruler book should be used to say no the judge does have to hear the dog. thanks


Posted by tony.beals on 06-09-2018 07:03 PM:

Well that might be true, but judge can put the 8 or 2 on dog and yes that is the judges call if he does not hear the dog judge can minus.

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Posted by sox12 on 06-09-2018 07:55 PM:

it is the handlers responibillity to make sure the judge hears them,thats the one of the rules all cast stay together so there is no missed calls

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Posted by Rip on 06-09-2018 08:01 PM:

Rules state the dog must open before call is made, by that the judge either hears him or he don't. If he don't he don't accept the call and the handler can question and vote but the judge can not just write it down if nobody hears the dog.

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Posted by Jgarrett on 06-09-2018 08:10 PM:

All you need to know to handle the situation

(b) Hunting Judge Cast: The following procedure must be followed when using Hunting judges on a cast, regardless of category. Situations not questioned and notated at the time Judge’s decision is made, will not be considered.
1. The Hunting Judge has complete authority and will be responsible for scor- ing all situations.
2. Should a situation arise where a handler questions a call that was made, or a call that should have been made but wasn’t, that handler may ask to have his question voted on by all cast members that remain with the cast at that time. 3. Each handler must vote or their dog will be scratched. It takes a majority vote to overturn judge’s decision. Any handler that is not satisfied with the outcome retains the right to place a question mark (?) on the card and present his ques- tion to the MOH/panel.


Posted by joey on 06-09-2018 09:14 PM:

11 (a) Dog must open before being declared struck or treed.

The judge has to hear the dog struck or treeing before the call can be made. He has complete control of the cast. The judge can not rely on what a handler tells him if he cant hear it. The type of guy you are dealing with knows full well what the rule is. I'll bet he twist more than just this one. Its not written down in black and white. Its UKC policy based off the wording in this rule. Refer him to the first paragraph on the back of the card if he wants to argue with that.

In addition to the rules on the scorecard, the Official UKC Coonhound
Rulebook and the most recent Coonhound Advisor columns in COONHOUND
BLOODLINES contain additional rules, statements of policies and interpretations
of UKC rules pertaining to the conducting of UKC events. All event activities,
rules, policy applications and interpretations are subject to the final decision by
UKC in its sole judgment and discretion.


In other words, Because UKC says so.

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Posted by B&Ttreed2017 on 06-11-2018 03:13 AM:

Hmm

That happened several times at Redbone Days Hunt. Handler says " go ahead and tree Dan, I know he will be there" Dog Never opened before he said this..Big Paid Handler.

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Posted by nextcoonhunters on 06-13-2018 06:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
11 (a) Dog must open before being declared struck or treed.

The judge has to hear the dog struck or treeing before the call can be made. He has complete control of the cast. The judge can not rely on what a handler tells him if he cant hear it. The type of guy you are dealing with knows full well what the rule is. I'll bet he twist more than just this one. Its not written down in black and white. Its UKC policy based off the wording in this rule. Refer him to the first paragraph on the back of the card if he wants to argue with that.

In addition to the rules on the scorecard, the Official UKC Coonhound
Rulebook and the most recent Coonhound Advisor columns in COONHOUND
BLOODLINES contain additional rules, statements of policies and interpretations
of UKC rules pertaining to the conducting of UKC events. All event activities,
rules, policy applications and interpretations are subject to the final decision by
UKC in its sole judgment and discretion.


In other words, Because UKC says so.

he is going to probably agree with you on 11 then refer you to 8 where it says handlers responsibility and if it gets to that point it should be fun to tell him sit down shut up because ukc says I am right and I don't have to prove it to you


Posted by shadinc on 06-13-2018 06:50 PM:

If this guy is correct, what good is the 8 minute rule. Nobody would ever get minused on the 8.


Posted by Rip on 06-14-2018 12:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
he is going to probably agree with you on 11 then refer you to 8 where it says handlers responsibility and if it gets to that point it should be fun to tell him sit down shut up because ukc says I am right and I don't have to prove it to you


No, that is not correct. He can't spin it that way. That is not how rules work nor have they ever worked that way.

If you have one rule directly telling you to do something that is the rule that applies, period you can't pull the quitting a track rule on a dog that comes in late to the tree because you have a rule covering that.

Same here, you can't over ride the rule that says a dog must open before being declared struck or treed.

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Posted by Todd_Miller on 06-14-2018 02:32 PM:

Strike your dog and if its not heard on or immediately after the call then misused. Id venture out and say you might want the judge to hear the dog open.


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