UKC Forums - Rules question

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Posted by ov_blues on 10-03-2018 03:59 AM:

Rules question

Dog A, B, C, and D are all struck in that order. Dogs A, B, & C are treed in that order. Cast goes to tree, sees coon and pluses the points. Dog D comes into tree, what happens with Dog D’s 25 points?

Now say Dog D doesn’t come into the tree while the cast is still there, but goes into the tree and starts treeing after the cast has scored the tree and has walked away to put the strike time on Dog D before they can recast. What does dog D get done with his 25 strike points?

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Posted by JiM on 10-03-2018 04:13 AM:

How could they know dog D came into tree if they are no longer at the tree?

My thinking is that if dog D comes into that tree before the other dogs are recast, it should be handled and strike points score according to whether a coon was seen or not.

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Posted by ov_blues on 10-03-2018 04:33 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
How could they know dog D came into tree if they are no longer at the tree?

My thinking is that if dog D comes into that tree before the other dogs are recast, it should be handled and strike points score according to whether a coon was seen or not.

Let’s just say Dog D went to that tree and started treeing after the cast left the tree.

I agree with you on the recast and I think UKC has made a interpretation to that affect in the past.

Someone else is saying once the tree has been scored then it becomes a previously scored tree and if a dog came into it and started treeing their points would be deleted. I know that isn’t right if the cast was at the tree but it did bring up the question of whether the cast had to walk away from the tree or recast the dogs before the tree became a previously scored tree.

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Posted by johnny reb on 10-03-2018 05:18 AM:

If the dog comes in after tree is scored. it should t matter if you're still at the tree or have left the tree. That tree can't be scored again

Posted by johnny reb on 10-03-2018 05:18 AM:

If the dog comes in after tree is scored. it should t matter if you're still at the tree or have left the tree. That tree can't be scored again

Posted by ov_blues on 10-03-2018 05:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by johnny reb
If the dog comes in after tree is scored. it should t matter if you're still at the tree or have left the tree. That tree can't be scored again

You’re not scoring the tree, you are scoring the strike where Dog D was struck in prior to the other dogs getting treed and scored. That’s the question.

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Posted by JiM on 10-03-2018 07:00 AM:

I think as long as dogs have not been recast, any dog handled at that tree gets scored under rule 5-b.

Posted by thomasg on 10-03-2018 09:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I think as long as dogs have not been recast, any dog handled at that tree gets scored under rule 5-b.

once shining time expires tree is scored as previosly scored tree if d comes in or trees on it .recasting has no bearing on dog d s strike points .

Posted by pamjohnson on 10-03-2018 01:42 PM:

I would say after the tree is scored it's a previously scored tree. Common sense rules.

Posted by Bill(Chew) on 10-03-2018 03:31 PM:

Until the dogs are recast they are still considered treed. If dog D comes in to that tree before the treed dogs are recast it will be scored coming into a closed tree.

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-03-2018 03:38 PM:

Gonna give you all something to think on. What if it is a possum and the 8 is up?

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-03-2018 03:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
Until the dogs are recast they are still considered treed. If dog D comes in to that tree before the treed dogs are recast it will be scored coming into a closed tree.

No they would be considered leashed.

Posted by joey on 10-03-2018 03:41 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by thomasg
once shining time expires tree is scored as previosly scored tree if d comes in or trees on it .recasting has no bearing on dog d s strike points .

Dogs are considered at the tree until they are recast, If he comes in while they are still there he gets his minus if the coon is there. If he comes in after they leave and are recast then its a previously scored tree.

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Posted by joey on 10-03-2018 03:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Gonna give you all something to think on. What if it is a possum and the 8 is up?

Its handled different if its off game, no idea why but it is.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-03-2018 04:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Its handled different if its off game, no idea why but it is.

If it is within the 8 it would fall under UKC mysterious saved by the judge scenario. If before cast arrives scratched if NITECH or GRNITECH cast. But what about after the 8.
Btw IMO if the 8 is up on the tree even if dogs are not gone from tree (dogs would be considered leashed until recast) it is a previous scored tree or anytime before the 8 when cast is satisfied, judge judge has stopped time and determined the scoring of the tree it would then become a previous scored tree even if cast has not recut dogs.

Posted by joey on 10-03-2018 04:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
If it is within the 8 it would fall under UKC mysterious saved by the judge scenario. If before cast arrives scratched if NITECH or GRNITECH cast. But what about after the 8.
Btw IMO if the 8 is up on the tree even if dogs are not gone from tree (dogs would be considered leashed until recast) it is a previous scored tree or anytime before the 8 when cast is satisfied, judge judge has stopped time and determined the scoring of the tree it would then become a previous scored tree even if cast has not recut dogs.

Thats not how UKC has ruled on it in the past although your thought on it makes perfectly good sense. The dogs are considered treed until they are recast. So you are leading away from a tree and it was circled, a dog comes into the cast. It doesn't get minus it gets circled the same as it would if it had walked up to the tree. Because they are still considered treed until they are recast. If they had a coon the dog gets minus, same as if he came into the tree. So with a possum for some strange reason they do not get minus for coming into a tree. So there for they wouldn't get it if your leading away either.

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 10-03-2018 05:00 PM:

Hummm

Wonder if policy has changed since the advisor 2nd edition was printed other than 8 minutes on shine time--page 51?

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Posted by JiM on 10-03-2018 05:11 PM:

Re: Hummm

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
Wonder if policy has changed since the advisor 2nd edition was printed other than 8 minutes on shine time--page 51?

Not that I know of.

Posted by ov_blues on 10-03-2018 06:15 PM:

Re: Hummm

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
Wonder if policy has changed since the advisor 2nd edition was printed other than 8 minutes on shine time--page 51?

What does it say?

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Posted by Night Shift on 10-03-2018 06:19 PM:

What does dogs being on a leash have to do with rather tree is considered scored. If a tree is plused it’s a scored tree in my opinion. So if a dog comes in it falls under rule H of a previously scored tree.

You may stand there 7 minutes waiting on the dog to bark so the other 3 can recast and then it decides to come in. So let’s say 7 minutes of shine time was used before coon was seen and plused then 7 minutes of standing and waiting on dog D to strike. That’s 14 minutes a tree is open to take minus on strike. Makes no sense to me.

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Posted by nextcoonhunters on 10-03-2018 07:03 PM:

recast

Okay I think once the tree is scored it's done, but what if you guys are right and not until they are recast. a couple of ?s. so 3 dogs tree and are scored 4 dog is on the paper with strike points you walk away from scored tree listen for dog put 8 on dog next time he barks you can tell he is treed on the scored tree, but handler knows this so he doesn't tree, do you recut your dogs or not? what happens to his strike points? next ? same thing 3 nite champs treed done nothing seen, you walk away last dog 7 min. later opens treed on same tree now a possum is up that same tree what the heck do you do? one last ? 3 dogs done you leave last dog trees no coon the first time but coon now?

Posted by swamp1 on 10-03-2018 07:57 PM:

Rules

Dogs tree on tree, shine times expires, no coon seen. Walking away from tree hunters look back, coon looking right at them. Rules rule!

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-03-2018 08:10 PM:

Re: recast

According to what you all are saying is that a tree is not considered a "previous scored tree" until the dogs or dog that was treeing on it are turned loose. So if you are now wondering around waiting on a dog with the 8 running to open or in the case where you can lead until you are comfortable to turn loose your tree is not previously scored even though you are now no longer anywhere near it. UKC if this is the case you need a different clarification because this makes less since than being saved by the judge on a possum thing lol.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 10-03-2018 08:16 PM:

Re: Rules

quote:
Originally posted by swamp1
Dogs tree on tree, shine times expires, no coon seen. Walking away from tree hunters look back, coon looking right at them. Rules rule!

Absolutely! They can say whatever but that tree is scored, dead, and now a previously scored tree even if your dog is on the lead.
According to the way they are putting it is not a previous scored tree if you are on lead and not considered one until whoever was on it turns their dog loose. So if that is the case a dog that hasn't opened with the 8 running or another dog that was treed somewhere else comes in and falls treed there they could be scored.

Posted by HERSHSHUNTIN on 10-03-2018 08:21 PM:

Re: Re: Hummm

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
What does it say?

a) Coon is found before shining time expires.
Immediately after the point where a majority of the cast has plainly seen the coon without question--it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.
b)Cast members suspend the search before shining time expires without finding a coon.
Immediately after the point when all cast members are satisfied to quit the search-it becomes a ''previously'' scored tree.
c) Shining time expires and no coon is found.
Immediately following the 8 minutes expiration of shining time-it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.

this was taken out of the advisor 2nd edition on pages 51 & 52 the whole question on previously scored trees is there to read, I did change from 10 minutes to 8 minutes shine time.--it would take me all afternoon to quote the whole question & their reply.--lol--I know a lot will disagree with the ruling--but its not mine.
in the end it looks like delete strike points to the dog coming in after the tree is scored to me.

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