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Posted by yadkintar on 11-17-2019 07:58 PM:

Ok I will tell you what you already know lol. All of us with a lot of mileage on us usually have a line of dogs we like usually because we had one out of that line that was a dog of a lifetime. Then when it is gone our natural tendency is to double up on that line to try to get that dog again with limited success usually. So then you watch another dog kinda sorta a little of the same blood but might be out of a sire you donít like. But it is dominantly throwing the traits you like so you take your line and mix it with that line and you have revived the traits you like.



What I am saying is sometimes what works on paper donít work in the woods.


Tar


Posted by LNeal on 11-17-2019 08:25 PM:

Tar Rattler

Tarbaby how many generations did it take you to breed out the laziness out of tar rattler blood line.Asking for a friend.thanks


Posted by yadkintar on 11-17-2019 08:39 PM:

Re: Tar Rattler

quote:
Originally posted by LNeal
Tarbaby how many generations did it take you to breed out the laziness out of tar rattler blood line.Asking for a friend.thanks



Well maybe itís what it was mixed on but pretty much a rattler x lipper cross is what I had first. Then cheif a son of rattler x a heavy Finley River gyp x a rock river rocket x stylish lipper female and buddy it is ruff here and you can send them in a dozer pile they will hustle in anything. I did have some dogs out of nailor that was to lazy for me tho !! When I went with the bad habit line I got stylish Harry in there which he was double lipper. So I donít know what I did lol.


Tar


Posted by Dave Richards on 11-17-2019 10:36 PM:

Tar

The Yadkinriver dogs I have seen had all the hustle you could ask for, nothing lazy about them, might have been on the other side if you had lazy dogs. Lol. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by Dave Richards on 11-17-2019 10:44 PM:

Mr. Lambert

Do you honestly think ANYONE can give you an accurate answer to your question. My answer was based on paper regarding percentages, but TAR made an excellent point in that what works on paper, may not work in the woods. How many breeders do you know that have had enough generations off the same dog and has the knowledge to know for sure that any of the known traits were still getting passed down from that dog? ALL you can expect with your question is guestimates, or unfounded opinions. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-18-2019 12:37 AM:

Mr Richards, just because you don't know doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of breeders out there that do have a practical knowledge of the subject. I guess that they just don't like to post on the Forum.

...Tree style...Long Tall Sally...



.....Sally's Great Great Great Grandson....


Posted by nitehunter2004 on 11-18-2019 12:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Richards, just because you don't know doesn't mean that there aren't a lot of breeders out there that do have a practical knowledge of the subject. I guess that they just don't like to post on the Forum.

Thatís Right!


Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-18-2019 12:44 AM:

What about the Clover dog breeders? Can you ever breed out that head and color?


Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-18-2019 12:47 AM:

How many generations does it take to breed the tree out of Sacket Jr/Rat Attack dogs? And is keeping certain traits that you like in a line easier than breeding one that you don't like out?


Posted by Dave Richards on 11-18-2019 02:13 AM:

Mr. Lambert

I certainly don't know the answers, let me know if you find someone that does. I give you credit, these are good questions and I would love to hear the thoughts of some experienced breeders regarding these questions. Hope it isn't some big secret they will not share, could make a man rich if he can figure these things out. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by Dave Richards on 11-18-2019 02:35 AM:

Mr. Lambert/Tim Osborne

Both of you have been breeding dogs for years now, Why don't you guys share your thoughts on these questions being asked, after several generations of the same line of dogs, you guys should be able to address these questions as to your own experiences. Are your desirable traits being passed on and how many generations are you seeing them in, is it a trait and not learned behavior? Is it dominant or recessive? Any bad traits that you have tried to eliminate? Have you been successful in eliminating them and if so, how many generations did it take? Does anything popup in New generations that were not seen in previous generations? Have you been able to put any new traits in your breeding stock? Have you lost any desirable traits in the newest generations? Do you breed for improvement of the breed? How successful have you been in improving the breed? If so, how many generations did it take? Are you getting better dogs with each newer generation or are the dogs not as good as prior generations? Answer these questions based on your own experiences that way they should be factual. Thank you guys in advance. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by Adams, Harold on 11-18-2019 02:56 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What about the Clover dog breeders? Can you ever breed out that head and color?



yes yes you can... cross it on a bunch of Sackett Jr. Male I have shows Whitey or Sackett Jr. or a son in every sire in fouth generation and once each in third. got a little more whitey as two females in fourth are out of him. Dog is dark brown headed blanket back tight feet no dew claws. I could of ran a TBall style ad on this dog and bred him to a thousand females probably .... got ol so n so 604 times up close not inbred!!!! Have no clue what this dog would throw looks wise probably a bunch of little calico eared pitbull looking mongrels.


Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-18-2019 04:03 AM:

Mr Adams, sounds like a lot of tree bred to a lot of track. Did it work?


Posted by Adams, Harold on 11-18-2019 04:35 AM:

I've kept him for 5 yrs...


Posted by nitehunter2004 on 11-18-2019 11:22 AM:

Re: Mr. Lambert/Tim Osborne

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Both of you have been breeding dogs for years now, Why don't you guys share your thoughts on these questions being asked, after several generations of the same line of dogs, you guys should be able to address these questions as to your own experiences. Are your desirable traits being passed on and how many generations are you seeing them in, is it a trait and not learned behavior? Is it dominant or recessive? Any bad traits that you have tried to eliminate? Have you been successful in eliminating them and if so, how many generations did it take? Does anything popup in New generations that were not seen in previous generations? Have you been able to put any new traits in your breeding stock? Have you lost any desirable traits in the newest generations? Do you breed for improvement of the breed? How successful have you been in improving the breed? If so, how many generations did it take? Are you getting better dogs with each newer generation or are the dogs not as good as prior generations? Answer these questions based on your own experiences that way they should be factual. Thank you guys in advance. Dave

Dave the reason I can do a one hour job in 5 min is because I have 40 years experience! See I learned the hard way, if I tried to explain my Hard Earned success an failures You and a few others would pick it apart with false conspiracy theories not facts, but you have my number.


Posted by yadkintar on 11-18-2019 12:01 PM:

Re: Re: Mr. Lambert/Tim Osborne

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Dave the reason I can do a one hour job in 5 min is because I have 40 years experience! See I learned the hard way, if I tried to explain my Hard Earned success an failures You and a few others would pick it apart with false conspiracy theories not facts, but you have my number.



As a breeder I have had just about as many failures as successes but thatís because of my high standards. We have such a large adverse gene pool now that makes it hard to get the same consistency every cross I understand why people feel itís cheaper just to go buy a good dog and go strait to the hunts.


Tar


Posted by Richard Lambert on 11-18-2019 02:06 PM:

Tarbaby, everybody has had as many failures as success's. You just have to remember the failures but concentrate on the success. One real good one will make up for a lot of failures.


Posted by pamjohnson on 11-18-2019 02:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What about the Clover dog breeders? Can you ever breed out that head and color?
i can answer this question real quick. Yes breed to 1 that carries the preacher color. Problem solved in 1 breeding.


Posted by Dave Richards on 11-18-2019 07:34 PM:

Tim Osborne

No one can do an hour job in 5 minutes, now some folks may take an hour to do a five minute job. Why would you implicate me in a conspiracy theory to tear you apart? I have never been anything but complimentary about you and your dogs. I actually thought that you could shed some light on Mr. Lambert questions and those that I proposed, based on your own breeding experiences. You had no problem in commenting sarcastically on my post, but I was being respectful to you. I assure you that I am in no way wanting to belittle your breeding program and have never said anything to suggest that, in fact the opposite. I may have misjudged you, I actually thought you were s stand up guy. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by nitehunter2004 on 11-18-2019 08:10 PM:

I am a stand up guy! If I offended you I apologize but if you think of me different today than yesterday because of a post on a message board then I guess I misjudged you also.


Posted by yadkintar on 11-18-2019 08:20 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
I am a stand up guy! If I offended you I apologize but if you think of me different today than yesterday because of a post on a message board then I guess I misjudged you also.



My feelers are hurt too I might not be Able to bear it !!



Tarbaby


Posted by nitehunter2004 on 11-18-2019 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
My feelers are hurt too I might not be Able to bear it !!



Tarbaby


Itís another successful day.


Posted by yadkintar on 11-18-2019 08:28 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Itís another successful day.




Really kinda surprised it ainít all my fault by now I am loosing my touch!!


The magic is gone.


Tarbaby


Posted by Dave Richards on 11-18-2019 08:45 PM:

Tim Osborne

A man's character is always being tested by everything we do and say, you are no exception, nor am I. You absolutely had no basis for making the post you made suggesting that I would just use anything you say to make unfounded or negative comments about you or your breeding program. You definitely know by all of my compliments regarding your dogs that I am a fan. Why you made your post indicating otherwise says a lot about you, don't pull my character into any response you make regarding this matter. You have to accept the responsibility of your own statements, statements that were made without foundation. You did not hurt my feelings, but you made a statement about yourself. I stand by my comments. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses


Posted by jdgher on 11-18-2019 08:57 PM:

Re: Traits Passed On

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
How many generations does a male or female pass their traits on? I know that the sire and dam each only pass 50% of their genetic makeup to their pups. So their grand pups only have 25% of their genetic makeup and their great grandpups only have 12.5% of their genetic makeup. So how far down the line do y'all think that you can see traits from a dog's ancestor?


Richard,
If you like a certain trait, and you only breed dogs that have that certain trait, then I expect that trait could continue to be passed on for "ever". This might require use of frozen semen and line breeding to keep having litters with the desired trait. When outcrossing you would need to look for this trait as well.

__________________
Darrin Gher
Elbridge Redbones
Home of
GRNTCH PR' Steve-O and Chili's Red Flow
NTCH PR' Twisters Musical Red Huey DNA-VIP Perf Sire 06'07 Deceased 11/07
Former Home of
NTCH 'PR' Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty
NTCH. CH PR' SawBlade Red Reckon
NTCH. CH PR' Gher's Timber Mt. Brandy
Breeder of
GRNTCH PR' Daugherty's Red BUBBA
NTCH CH PR' BA'S Tree Top Rockin Griddle
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