UKC Forums - The Civil War

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-04-2020 03:23 PM:

Protesters

The tearing down of statues and this 4th of July holiday got me to thinking about our history.
The Revolutionary War was our first violent protest. The Boston Tea Party was a violent protest complete with rioters. We as a country were protesting/fighting for freedom and our equality. The Declaration of Independace says that we were fighting for the principle that all men were equal.
The Civil War was the ultimate violent protest. Southern states actually organized and fought a war against "the government". The government was trying to fight for racial equality.
The Woman's Suffrage Movement staged violent and peaceful protests. They were fighting for equality for women.
The Civil rights movement staged violent and peaceful protests. The Black Panthers were a violent group of protesters and rioters. Many people were killed or beaten by the police during these protests. Again this was a fight for racial equality.
During the Vietnam War, although the protesters were mostly peaceful, many of them were killed or beaten by our government police and troops
There have many peaceful and violent protests protests by American Indians in which they were killed by government troops or police. Geronimo, Sitting Bull and Cochise were just protesting for equality. Ruby Ridge was a protest for racial equality.
If you look back at the history of our great country, you will find that it is full of protests against our government, both peaceful and violent. We have our freedom of speech and the right to gather and protest. We as Americans have made the most of it right from the very start. It is nothing new and the government and police's response is nothing new also.
No matter what Joe Biden says, he would react the same if he was in charge. Every President in our long history has called out Federal troops when protesters got violent.

Posted by hillbilly56 on 07-05-2020 02:08 PM:

they have let these people go way to far should have stoped it soon as it got started but as everybody knows what ever trump does is wrong joe get's in there god help us it will be another oboma hillary or maybe worse for 4 yrs

Posted by Boondok Kennels on 07-05-2020 10:28 PM:

Biden doesn’t scare me. If he were to somehow “win” the election, he’ll be sidelined for the ailment he seems to have or he’ll die from old age! It’s his vice we need to worry about. That person will do the real damage. Yes, I agree these non-working young people protesting and the low life rioters should be scooped up and shipped out of this country. Give them a taste of real life.

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Posted by hillbilly56 on 07-06-2020 02:47 AM:

any of the democrats scare the hell outa me

Posted by Robert Johnson on 07-06-2020 01:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by hillbilly56
any of the democrats scare the hell outa me

me too! I have never seen a bunch of anti-Americans like them. It is all part of the Krushev plan from 1959.

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Posted by Black Plott on 07-06-2020 03:20 PM:

No disrespect, Mr. Lambert, but the Union didn’t attack the South over anything to do with race. That war was all about money, just like any other. Time and government have twisted our history in a way where the South are seen as committers of treason who fought their own country just so they could keep slaves, and lowlife Lincoln is hailed as a “hero” who only fought back because he cared so much about “racial equality”. A little deeper reading can enlighten anyone on the truth about why we fought and what kind of man “Honest Abe” was.

Again, Richard, I’m not trying to show any disrespect toward you or belittle you in any way. It’s just that common misconception of our nation’s history strikes a nerve inside me.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-06-2020 08:27 PM:

Everyone has a right to their own opinion. Being from the South, I was always taught that the Civil War was all about States rights vs Federal rights. But then I realized that the "States rights" was the right to keep slaves. Of course, Southern States were agricultural and had to have slaves to work their fields. Northern states were manufacturing and didn't need slaves. So it was easy for the Northern states to try to tell the Southern states that they could not have slaves.
Before the War, Southern states had slaves. After the War and the North won, slavery was abolished. Now I have not read that much about it but it seems to me that the War was about slavery.

Posted by Dave Richards on 07-06-2020 11:19 PM:

Mr. Lambert

Slavery WAS NOT the reason for the war, albeit slavery was abolished and some think that slavery was the real issue. Dave

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-07-2020 12:14 AM:

All right Mr Richards, just what was the reason? How could you make such a statement without giving us the real reason.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-07-2020 01:45 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
All right Mr Richards, just what was the reason? How could you make such a statement without giving us the real reason.

Essentially taxation without representation. Lincoln wasn't even on the ballot in 10 southern states and was now their president. The tariffs and taxes imposed on the agricultural south many poor who didn't own a single slave. Much like today with 2 different worlds colliding where now large cities want to make rules for the rest of us to follow. The industrialized north was imposing on the agricultural south. Slavery being abolished was the end result but little if anything on the south choosing to separate from the union. The war was to fought to by one side to prevent this separation, they couldn't afford to loose this many states and the south to gain their independence. As black plott mentioned follow the $!

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-07-2020 03:23 AM:

If it was all about taxes then how did slavery get involved? I guess that we agree on it being about the South not wanting the North telling them what to do. The South decided that they would just take their ball and go home. I wonder how the tax thing was worked out? After the War did the South have to pay the taxes?

Posted by honalieh on 07-07-2020 04:57 AM:

Good History Observation

The Emancipation Proclamation wasn't issued until the Civil War was well underway. As stated above, follow the $'s. It wasn't about slavery, though that is the popular story today.

RE: Industrial North. Let's not forget about white slavery (indentured servitude). Read up on the coal mines (WV and PA) in the early 1900's. See Blair Mountain. Read some UMWA history. See Mother Jones. The coal mine/steel mill robber barons didn't literally, but did essentially, own their employees. The old company towns are still here (throughout PA and WV). The company stores have largely disappeared, but it's not that long ago that some were still open. Listen to the song "16 Tons" by Tennessee Ernie Ford. It's based on fact.

It's not valid to compare this to being captured, bought, and sold (slaves). But, otherwise, there are a lot of similarities.

Even today, we have these indentured servitude problems. It's kind of out of sight, out of mind. But, it does exist. It could include undocumented immigrants. It could include the Chinese under control of the TRIAD (Chinese Mafia). See some of your Chinese restaurants.

Posted by micooner on 07-07-2020 04:58 AM:

Just a couple of things. Lincoln wasn't on the ten state ballots because of his anti slavery stance. There were no special taxes on the southern states. Tariffs were imposed called morrill tariffs on European goods. The southern states didn't want to pay especially South Carolina. So it was a combination of things that started the war.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-07-2020 03:25 PM:

Oh my goodness, one person says there were no taxes and another says that there were. Who am I to believe?

But 10 Southern states didn't put Lincoln on their election ballots because they thought that he would try to abolish slavery if elected so they didn't want anyone to vote for him.
Then after he was elected, they decided to cecede from the United States and start their own country where slavery would be legal. Now have I got that part right? Sounds like a bunch of pretty violent protesters to me.

Posted by micooner on 07-07-2020 03:38 PM:

I'm certainly not an expert on the cause of the civil war. In my opinion tariffs are a form of tax. Trumps tariffs are paid by we the consumers one way or the other. So the south felt the tariffs were a tax back in pre civil war times.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-07-2020 06:02 PM:

If it was just about taxes, I wonder why the South didn't just try to elect different congressmen and Presidents? Why did they feel like they had to cecede from the "United" states or Union?

People think that we have a division in our country nowadays but looking back over our history this is nothing. The BLM people are angels compared to what our country has been through. None of their leaders even come close to men like Geronimo, Cochise or Sitting Bull. They don't even have a Malcolm X.

The millennials that complain about BLM should have been around when young black men were actually getting lynched and the police stood around and did nothing about it. I realize that we still have room for improvement but I was around during segregation. The millenials don't realize how far we have come just in my generation.

Posted by robgregory on 07-08-2020 11:50 AM:

Mr. Cummings is right.

Slavery was never an issue until almost 2yrs. into the war. It was about high tariffs the north were putting on our agricultural goods. Do your homework. Rob Gregory

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Posted by micooner on 07-08-2020 02:52 PM:

Re: Mr. Cummings is right.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by robgregory
Slavery was never an issue until almost 2yrs. into the war. It was about high tariffs the north were putting on our agricultural goods. Do your homework. Rob Gregory [/QU
OTE] the way I understand it the tariffs were on European imports not on the southern ag products.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-08-2020 07:12 PM:

Oh my goodness, 620,000 soldiers lost their lives over some tariffs?

Posted by micooner on 07-08-2020 07:24 PM:

Kinda sad what the human race will kill for when you think about it.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 07-09-2020 03:03 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, 620,000 soldiers lost their lives over some tariffs?

Think about the difference in where you or I live and LA or NY. They lost their lives fighting over the separation of the US into 2 different countries. Many states had voted to secede from the union (US) and form their own country.
Do you right now see anyway to peaceable arrangements between those that want to turn the US into a disarmed Marist/communist society... give them the power and see how long we live under their rule without things manifesting into another full blown civil war.
These people all seem so out of touch with our reality we are all that stands between tyranny.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 07-09-2020 12:10 PM:

I have no idea why the War of Northern Aggression was fought way back then. That was 159 years ago, and I wasn't around to have an intelligent take on it, nor can I dail up anyone who was. What I do know, The current flag we fly all over this great nation is our symbol of freedom and strength. To see where this group of terrorist are taking it, and what they want for it is heartbreaking. We need to all wake up and be sure we go vote in November, and that vote has to be for Trump, or we will see a new kind of civil war in this country. Law abiding citizens will have to become criminals just to keep the freedoms we enjoy today. There will be no police to call. Hell Biden himself has said they are the enemy. We will have to take care of business ourselves.

When you think about, we have two countries right now. The democratic states of America and the Republican states of America. All our large cities are in a state of emergency. They have no leadership in these states or cities and it shows in the crimes that are committed each day. Take a long look in the mirror folks. If you love what you see, cast your vote with intelligence and vote Trump. OUR NATIONS future depends on you. We can live free, or in a state of civil war. The choice is yours. Either way, intend to fight for my freedoms, first at the polls, and if need be behind every tree and bush in the woods until I run out of means to fight. If you love this country the time has come to fight for her. She has protected you. Now its your turn to protect her.

Posted by bigtimberkennel on 07-09-2020 12:29 PM:

Tarfiffs or not,slavery or not both sides North & South lost human life period less we forget that these statutes are a reminder of a time past in hopes not to repeat again,doin away with them will not erase the facts, Merle Haggard said it best .... when your runnin down my country hoss,your walkin on the fightin side of me. Its way past time for America to Bless God.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 07-10-2020 11:43 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by bigtimberkennel
Tarfiffs or not,slavery or not both sides North & South lost human life period less we forget that these statutes are a reminder of a time past in hopes not to repeat again,doin away with them will not erase the facts, Merle Haggard said it best .... when your runnin down my country hoss,your walkin on the fightin side of me. Its way past time for America to Bless God.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 07-16-2020 08:20 PM:

Oh my goodness, I thought that I heard the answer wrong to a question asked by a reporter during the WH press briefing today so I looked it up.

Facts:
25 unarmed white people were killed by Police in 2019.
14 unarmed black people were killed by Police in the same time frame

The # of unarmed black people killed by police has actually decreased by 23% since 2015. The # of unarmed black people killed by the police yearly was higher during Obama's Presidency than during Trump's.

The actual facts put a little different perspective on things.

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