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Posted by Mark Guettner on 04-19-2021 01:44 AM:

Nite Hunt Questions And Get Answers Here

Lets try to start a column here for questions regarding Nite Hunts

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Posted by Mark Guettner on 04-19-2021 01:47 AM:

Squalling at a tree , When can you squall after handling a dog at his tree ? No matter if dogs are split treed or out trailing show rule also .

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Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-19-2021 03:53 AM:

You may use squallers shake vines ect when shine time begins regardless of whether other dogs are treed or not. The old rule of scratching was eliminated in the last rule change that took effect in January 2020 so there is no rule to list as it was done away with.

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Posted by Doug__Adams on 04-19-2021 05:27 PM:

This thread is a good idea!

A dog covers after tree is dead and it is determined to be slick.. How is the cover dog scored?

Same situation but coon is seen.. How is that scored?

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Posted by Tillery on 04-19-2021 08:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Doug__Adams
This thread is a good idea!

A dog covers after tree is dead and it is determined to be slick.. How is the cover dog scored?

Same situation but coon is seen.. How is that scored?

Dog covering on slick

Was the cover dog declared treed or not?

If he wasn't declared treed, then he would be awarded 25 tree points and then be minused strike and tree points.

If he was declared treed after tree was closed, then the treed call would have been accepted as a split tree. Once judge observed the dog had covered the closed tree, he would minus the 125 tree on the split because of assuming the dog left the split tree and covered. Then he would be awarded 25 tree points and minused on strike and tree.

Rule 4

(h) Dogs treeing but not declared treed, when Judge
arrives, will be assigned and minused 25 tree
points on off game or slick tree. Dogs shut-out* on
strike on slick tree or off game will receive minus
tree points only. Refer to Rule 6 (f) for Champion
Division casts and off game.

(i) Any dogs declared treed after three minutes expires
and tree is closed; call will be accepted as a split
tree. If dog is on closed tree when judge arrives,
strike and tree points are scored as dog left separate
split tree and is now considered treeing but not
declared treed on this particular tree.

Dog covering when coon seen

If dog was declared treed after tree was closed, then the treed call would have been accepted as a split tree. Once judge observed the dog had covered the closed tree he would minus the 125 tree on the split because of assuming dog left split tree and covered. Then dog would be minused strike points for being on closed tree with a coon seen.

If dog wasn't declared treed, then only strike points would be minused.

Rule 4

(d) If dog declared treed; after three minutes has
elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at
that particular tree. Dog(s) treeing but not declared
treed when judge arrives receives minus strike
points if coon is seen.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-19-2021 08:57 PM:

4 dog cast.

A B C all treed together. Dog D is declared split treed. Handler of D takes a spectator to handle his dog and wait for the others to come score his tree.

Once the cast arrives at Ds tree the spectator that went to dog D states that the handler moved the dog a few trees down then tied him up.

You are the judge what do you do now?

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Posted by Jordan120 on 04-19-2021 09:52 PM:

Hoosier Man1 that’s a tough one because a spectator ain’t aloud to say nothing during the hunt, so the judge could’ve scratched the dog the spectator was on the cast with.
But if I was judging I would look for evidence and have the spectator show me the tree the dog was treeing on before it got moved, and if it showed good evidence the dog was on that tree I would minus the dogs points or scratch that dog.

Did you have this happen to you in a recent cast?

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Posted by Jack Bingham on 04-19-2021 11:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
4 dog cast.

A B C all treed together. Dog D is declared split treed. Handler of D takes a spectator to handle his dog and wait for the others to come score his tree.

Once the cast arrives at Ds tree the spectator that went to dog D states that the handler moved the dog a few trees down then tied him up.

You are the judge what do you do now?

Crappy deal but nothing the judge can do the spectator is not part of the cast and is virtually invisable.

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Posted by Bork on 04-20-2021 12:01 AM:

Jack then technically is the judge allowed to let the handler and spectator go tie the dog without the cast

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-20-2021 03:01 PM:

Judge has to let handler go handle his dog once his tree is closed as long as cast has not started shining another tree. Who he sends with handler, if anyone, is up to judge. But as was said above, the spectator has no voice in the cast. However after the cast is over, spectator can file misconduct charges against handler that moved his dog. UKC would have to decide what to do at that point. After the cast is over, there is also nothing to prevent spectator from telling everyone he knows what the handler did. It won't effect the outcome of the cast but it will effect the handler's reputation.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-20-2021 03:34 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Judge has to let handler go handle his dog once his tree is closed as long as cast has not started shining another tree. Who he sends with handler, if anyone, is up to judge. But as was said above, the spectator has no voice in the cast. However after the cast is over, spectator can file misconduct charges against handler that moved his dog. UKC would have to decide what to do at that point. After the cast is over, there is also nothing to prevent spectator from telling everyone he knows what the handler did. It won't effect the outcome of the cast but it will effect the handler's reputation.

Solid reply in my book. I have always thought this was a definite possibility with how judges use spectators to go to split trees.

Technically, the handler that had the spectator would be scratched for interfering with a cast. But that'd take some serious kahunas to do that assuming the spectator was telling the truth that is. LOL

Posted by Tillery on 04-20-2021 05:46 PM:

3 dog cast. Dog A is declared struck (100) and soon after declared treed (125). Dog B is declared struck (75 with a line, for being shutout) then declared treed (75). Once tree is closed, cast proceeds toward the tree. As the cast approaches the tree, dog A is seen milling around about 20 feet from the tree with nose on the ground. Judge announces dog A is minused its (125) tree points for leaving the tree. By the time the cast reaches the tree, dog A had already went back on the tree and began treeing again and is handled.

1.) Is dog A now considered "treeing but not declared treed after tree is closed" or "coming in to tree after judge arrives"?

2.) Is dog B strike points still "shutout" or are they now available for scoring?

The tree is determined to be slick and voted to be minused.

What should the score be for each dog after this tree is scored?

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-20-2021 07:37 PM:

You said yourself that upon arrival Dog A is minused for being off the tree when Judge/cast arrived. So then Dog A went back to the tree after Judge arrived. So Dog A gets -125 for being off tree. Since he came/went back to tree after Judge cast arrived, Dog A gets his strike circled.
Dog B gets his tree points only minused since it was treeing on Dog A's tree that it was shut out on.

Posted by Tillery on 04-20-2021 07:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You said yourself that upon arrival Dog A is minused for being off the tree when Judge/cast arrived. So then Dog A went back to the tree after Judge arrived. So Dog A gets -125 for being off tree. Since he came/went back to tree after Judge cast arrived, Dog A gets his strike circled.
Dog B gets his tree points only minused since it was treeing on Dog A's tree that it was shut out on.

I agree with you Richard, but the judge wanted to award dog A an additional 25 tree points and minus his strike and tree again. Giving dog A a total of 250 minus for this one tree.

I was dog B. The judge was, of course, dog C.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-20-2021 08:16 PM:

You can't say that Dog A wasn't treed when Judge arrived and then say Dog A was treed when judge arrived. It is an either/or situation. It can't be both.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 04-20-2021 09:08 PM:

4 dog cast

A B C are treed together and the cast is shinning the tree.

Cast is spread way out in a field shinning a big oak in the middle. Dog D comes into a cast member and is walking beside him for the last few minutes of shine time.

A B C tree is scored circle. What happens to Dog D strike?

Posted by delta slough on 04-20-2021 11:32 PM:

On the cast with spectator saying a dog was moved, what if he is just lying and trying to help his buddy? I wouldn't accept any opinions from a spectator for that reason. He doesn't have a vote and could very easily cause his buddy to get scratched. Jr.Steelman

Posted by Dogwhisper on 04-21-2021 01:45 PM:

Why send a "mute" with a handler ....makes no sense to me...jmo

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-21-2021 01:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
4 dog cast

A B C are treed together and the cast is shinning the tree.

Cast is spread way out in a field shinning a big oak in the middle. Dog D comes into a cast member and is walking beside him for the last few minutes of shine time.

A B C tree is scored circle. What happens to Dog D strike?

Did D "come into a tree that was being scored"?

Posted by Eric Krebehenne on 04-21-2021 03:51 PM:

scoring

Whatever D is struck in for if in fact it is struck in would be minused obviously quit its track.

Posted by Tillery on 04-21-2021 04:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
4 dog cast

A B C are treed together and the cast is shinning the tree.

Cast is spread way out in a field shinning a big oak in the middle. Dog D comes into a cast member and is walking beside him for the last few minutes of shine time.

A B C tree is scored circle. What happens to Dog D strike?

Dog D strike should be circled as well.

Rule:

5. CIRCLED AND DELETED POINTS
Circle points:

(b) No dog to receive minus points for coming into tree
after Judge arrives unless a coon is seen and the
dogs treeing are awarded plus points.

Posted by Eric Krebehenne on 04-21-2021 07:13 PM:

tree

He didn't say the dog came into the tree he said it came to a person shining the tree out in the field.

Posted by Redneck Mafia on 04-21-2021 10:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Tillery
3 dog cast. Dog A is declared struck (100) and soon after declared treed (125). Dog B is declared struck (75 with a line, for being shutout) then declared treed (75). Once tree is closed, cast proceeds toward the tree. As the cast approaches the tree, dog A is seen milling around about 20 feet from the tree with nose on the ground. Judge announces dog A is minused its (125) tree points for leaving the tree. By the time the cast reaches the tree, dog A had already went back on the tree and began treeing again and is handled.

1.) Is dog A now considered "treeing but not declared treed after tree is closed" or "coming in to tree after judge arrives"?

2.) Is dog B strike points still "shutout" or are they now available for scoring?

The tree is determined to be slick and voted to be minused.

What should the score be for each dog after this tree is scored?

A. -125 for being off the tree. -25 next available & -100 strike on the slick. Total of -250 because "By the time the cast reaches the tree, dog A had already went back on the tree and began treeing again and is handled."
B -75 tree, strike is still deleted for being shut out.
Chey

Posted by Richard Lambert on 04-21-2021 10:57 PM:

Re: tree

quote:
Originally posted by Eric Krebehenne
He didn't say the dog came into the tree he said it came to a person shining the tree out in the field.

Oh my goodness, talk about splitting hairs. According to the UKC rules, dogs can quit their track and come into a tree that is being scored. If everyone would just accept UKC's rules and quit trying to interpret or change them to what they think should be done we wouldn't be having all of these arguments.

Posted by Charles Pullen on 04-22-2021 01:23 AM:

Nitech cast

3 walkers & a B&T
A, B, C strike in that order then the B&T strikes last . They tree same order but the B&T is split he’s the only one that has a Coon . Nothing in the other tree .
“What should you do ? “

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