UKC Forums - Correcting a dog

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 11-12-2019 01:38 AM:

Correcting a dog

I have never been hesitant to correct a dog for running something wrong, never gave a thought that if I corrected one for running a coyote he would stop running coon, so the other night I asked my self why I would not treat a tree exactly the same. Why would correcting a dog for treeing off game affect him treeing coon and even further correcting for blank trees affect him treeing where coon are. I really think most dogs have so much tree in them that I'm not gonna make him stop treeing as long as I let him know when he did right. What are your thoughts. I would really like to know.

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Posted by yadkintar on 11-12-2019 01:45 AM:

If a dog is intelegent he will understand when you go to pull him off a tree you pat him a couple times and tell him he done good vs when you pull him off a tree pull his ears a couple times and scold him of course I raise all mine and they know when I am upset with them.

Tar

Posted by novicane65 on 11-12-2019 02:01 AM:

I'm not the best talent by far but I'm never hesitant to correct a dog for slicks or for treeing off game. I've actually found it to help with some to correct them on the tree vs when they're running track. These dogs are the type that are mostly silent on track or the ambush style of dog. I've never seen a dog completely quit treeing coons after a correction. They might just run for the rest of the night(TIMBER CRUISING) after a healthy dose of correction. But usually the next night they'll settle back into treeing coons. But you have to know how much tree the dog has before you get too hard on them at a tree. If the dog is a tree dog vs a track dog it makes a big big difference. A tree dog can handle more correction on a tree than a track dog.

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Posted by wlewis323 on 11-12-2019 03:12 AM:

Just corrected my blue dog recently on a slick tree for the first time and she is a track minded dog, not as hard of a tree dog... that’s exactly what happened she left the tree after I raised my voice and shown her i wasn’t happy she went off hunting... I didn’t catch her till 10 the next morning. Timber cruising as you’d say I guess maybe I raised my voice a little too much but I didn’t want to touch her while she was treeing

Posted by Dave Richards on 11-12-2019 03:59 AM:

Preacher Tom

Slick treeing in these mountains is something I will not tolerate period. I have ALWAYS corrected dogs when they tree slick and the ones with a brain learned fast. Correcting a dog on a tree is no different to me than correcting a dog any other place, track, dog box, dog lot, etc. If a dog can not take the proper correction for their mistakes, are they REALLY WORTH keeping. I have broke dogs that were bad for treeing possums without harming their ability to tree coins. Same goes with slick treeing, they know they are wrong, especially when they go on and tree right. I never understand why some folks do not want to CORRECT their dogs at a tree! If you actually ruin a dog by correcting them at a tree, you NEVER had much to begin with. Dave

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Posted by novicane65 on 11-12-2019 12:47 PM:

Re: Preacher Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Slick treeing in these mountains is something I will not tolerate period. I have ALWAYS corrected dogs when they tree slick and the ones with a brain learned fast. Correcting a dog on a tree is no different to me than correcting a dog any other place, track, dog box, dog lot, etc. If a dog can not take the proper correction for their mistakes, are they REALLY WORTH keeping. I have broke dogs that were bad for treeing possums without harming their ability to tree coins. Same goes with slick treeing, they know they are wrong, especially when they go on and tree right. I never understand why some folks do not want to CORRECT their dogs at a tree! If you actually ruin a dog by correcting them at a tree, you NEVER had much to begin with. Dave

Mr Dave I agree. If you correct a dog on tree and it ruins them you didn't have much to start with.

Wiewis323, yes some will do just what she did. But for most just raising hour voice isn't enough of a correction. Which is why I always walk in and tie the dog at the tree before I shine , just like if you were on a cast. But now you have control of when the dog can leave.

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 11-12-2019 01:48 PM:

If you have one you can't correct anytime and anyplace. You may have a dog you can be happy with. But you don't have a dog most are looking for and one capable of winning with. Think about correction. It is done because the dog is doing something that will generally collect you minus points. That is what separates the winners form the losers. Minus Points!

Dave Richards said something very important and most dog owners have just a small percentage of this in their training methods. Dave said "slick treeing in the mountains is something I will not tolerate" Difference between hound owners and hound trainers. Is trainers understand the big picture of do's and don's when it comes to hounds. They don't tolerate any of the DONT"S and treat them all the same when it comes to discipling the dog. If your standards aren't based upon the knowledge of what a coon hound is and based upon the fact you won't tolerate anything less. You will always be wondering why the other guy has a nice dog.

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Posted by high ridge on 11-13-2019 12:29 AM:

If they can’t take correction and learn from it they ain’t staying here
Coonhunting can be the most enjoyable thing there is for a past time, it can also be a nightmare if the dog is the boss.
What some tolerate others see it as no big deal. I demand a dog go hunting, find coon track, take it the correct way, locate the correct tree, tree, and stay till I get there.
Simple task, it’s the other stuff in between you have to correct and train for
No person has hunted more sorry dogs than myself. At one time I had too because I didn’t know any better, today I won’t do it. Just soon stay home

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Posted by Dave Richards on 11-13-2019 12:56 AM:

Billy Carter

I agree 100 percent with what you are saying. I would rather be home than hunting a dog that causes me to dislike hunting. I made a decision many years ago that I would not keep any dog that I did not enjoy hunting. Not all of the dogs I have owned and enjoyed were top coon dogs, but they at least were enjoyable to hunt with. Dave

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Posted by Reuben on 11-13-2019 02:47 AM:

I won’t keep a dog very long if I don’t like it...and the hunt is always better when I like the dog...

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 11-13-2019 03:51 AM:

Well the dog I have now I enjoy hunting at least 80% of the time. But there are nights when he just doesn't get it done like I want. But to tell the truth this is probably the second dog I've had that I enjoyed at least 80% of the hunts. I am hard to please. My expectation is that they run every track right with a coon in the tree but that just doesn't happen every time. Don't believe there ever was a dog that was 100%.

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Tom Wood

Posted by jdgher on 11-13-2019 04:28 AM:

Know the dog

Some dogs require a big dose of correction. Some dogs, a small dose goes a long way. Some forget stuff pretty quick. Some never forget.
I've done more damage giving a large does, than I ever did giving a small dose.
Start with a small dose and work your way up, that is my way now.

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Posted by houndsound on 11-13-2019 06:59 AM:

Anytime I hear someone say something about some form of correction ruining a dog (bark collars at the house will make them silent on track... correcting on bad trees will stop them from treeing, etc..) I want to ask if they housebreak a dog will it quit peeing outside also?

Posted by wlewis323 on 11-13-2019 12:17 PM:

Novicane65 thanks for the advice I was hoping that starting with my voice was the lightest Dose of correction. What would you say is a good example or way to make a light, medium and heavy correction. I’m scared to do a heavy correction on my blue dog she’s more trackminded not as much tree power but my walker male is a hard tree dog I think he will need some harder correcting vs her...

Posted by pamjohnson on 11-13-2019 02:27 PM:

Wlewis323
Sometimes it's not about how hard or lite a tree dog they are so much as how much correction they accept before learning.

Posted by Nathan Phenix on 11-13-2019 03:27 PM:

I had real nice finished female. Fairly accurate a honest (70%) and straight. We have medium coon population and I give her handful coon a year. And she was extremely fast getting treed. Took her White River Refuge first 3 trees had coon rolled all 3 out. Like went to her head made 13 slick trees. Took her home started correcting for slick treeing. And she got back her accuracy but never was as fast about getting treed. Started to check a lot more. Still nice hound but definitely not as tough a comp dog as before.

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Posted by wlewis323 on 11-13-2019 03:42 PM:

Nathan phenix this sounds like exactly what’s happening... so I reckon now you will never knock 3 coons out in a row like that? If not how many coons do you feel comfortable knocking out to a young dog or even an old dog now? I was nervous to not knock any coons out because I though I needed to reward her for doing the right thing so she knows. Looks like it backfired though

Posted by novicane65 on 11-13-2019 08:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wlewis323
Novicane65 thanks for the advice I was hoping that starting with my voice was the lightest Dose of correction. What would you say is a good example or way to make a light, medium and heavy correction. I’m scared to do a heavy correction on my blue dog she’s more trackminded not as much tree power but my walker male is a hard tree dog I think he will need some harder correcting vs her...

Have you collar conditioned the dog yet? I use the e-collar for a good portion of my training in the woods. But there's little things you can do before you get rough on a dog. I'm never for going that route first. Just as was stated above start slow and get stiffer correction as it goes along. If you don't have an e-collar system then you'll have to use a switch. And a decent alternative to a switch is a riding crop. It makes more noise then it does hurt.

Example: Every dog is different and responds different to each form of punishment.
Light correction is your voice or just leading the dog off the tree without saying anything or petting the dog at all is the lightest correction that I'm aware of. But unless the dog is so timid or shy that you can't hardly get your hands on the dog then I'd avoid this correction because it takes longer to see results IMO.
Medium correction is using a switch or the e-collar on lower settings.
Hard corrections is a bigger switch or higher settings on the e-collar.

Posted by wlewis323 on 11-13-2019 10:16 PM:

Novicane65

She has never had a ecollar on yet. I can borrow my dads alpha though. Do you have to leave it on for a week or two before I use it on her at all so she doesn’t just think it’s the collar getting her after i throw it on her?
Thanks for the help

Posted by novicane65 on 11-13-2019 11:45 PM:

My suggestion is to search it on Google. There's plenty of videos on the subject by the manufacturers of the different systems on how to do it.

Posted by Nathan Phenix on 11-14-2019 01:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by wlewis323
Nathan phenix this sounds like exactly what’s happening... so I reckon now you will never knock 3 coons out in a row like that? If not how many coons do you feel comfortable knocking out to a young dog or even an old dog now? I was nervous to not knock any coons out because I though I needed to reward her for doing the right thing so she knows. Looks like it backfired though

Every dog is different. My female was very very tree minded. I think if a young dog is being singled out and does good job knock a coon out a night isnt to much (if they earn it) pop up coon at 75 yards from truck isnt earning it. If your dog starts slick treeing even with consistently knocking coon out back off. My uncle had very accurate finishex dog but you knock coon out he would slick more than normal for night or 2. There is no perfect number on how many coon. Its knowing your dog and when they need one and when they dont.

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Bayou Creek Black and Tan’s

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Posted by Nathan Phenix on 11-14-2019 01:15 AM:

Re: Novicane65

quote:
Originally posted by wlewis323
She has never had a ecollar on yet. I can borrow my dads alpha though. Do you have to leave it on for a week or two before I use it on her at all so she doesn’t just think it’s the collar getting her after i throw it on her?
Thanks for the help

Here is some GOOD advice on that e collar. Every dogs pain tolerance to electricity is different. To learn your dog pain tolerance put collar on dog in yard. Alpha has 18 setting on shocking start at 1 and work your way up until you can tell dog is noticing it. Like when flea is biting them and they spin to nip at it. This will give you the number your dogs tolerance starts at. When correcting with ecoller start about 2 number up from the dogs tolerance number. Had dogs that on 5 act like they was dying other on 14 or 15 wouldnt even show much reaction. Make sure you collar is tight enough the prongs are getting get contact. More good dogs been ruined by ecoller than from many coons knocked out.

__________________
Ephesians 2:8 KJV
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Bayou Creek Black and Tan’s

Nathan Phenix
417-255-5697

Posted by wlewis323 on 11-14-2019 11:49 AM:

thanks for the help everybody now I have a little more confidence in my decision making when working the dogs. Took her lastnight she finally got in 450 yards deep aginst a creek in a bottom and worked an area without covering enough ground and took way too long for me... from about 9:45 pm - 1:00 am when I caught her.... frustrating... I seen her get in there and get struck and carry it on to the tree many times but not lastnight.

Posted by shadinc on 11-14-2019 03:29 PM:

I'm a little bit skeptical about knocking out coons causes slick treeing. I don't recall anybody saying that when coon hides were $40. And not many people were leaving them in trees.

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Posted by novicane65 on 11-14-2019 04:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I'm a little bit skeptical about knocking out coons causes slick treeing. I don't recall anybody saying that when coon hides were $40. And not many people were leaving them in trees.

As long as you're aware the dogs today are a different animal than the dogs of yesteryear when hides were high. But it depends on the dog. I've seen some dogs get more accurate and less accurate depending on what the dog was used to. Some dogs are gamblers by nature regardless of how many you knock out. Some dogs won't gamble at all, and double check themselves before settling in on tree. I know you know all this.

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