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The thing about track dogs.........

The tough part of judging track dogs is that there is basically no way to accurately measure tracking speed. We use our ears but our impressions from that are effected by a lot of other things that mess up those judgments. For instance a dog that uses a lot of mouth on track gives the impression of being a much faster track dog than one that is very tight mouthed. The same thing greatly effects how quick they get struck. A dog that never says a word until the track is straightened out and moving will give the impression of being a much slower to find a track than a loose mouth dog that opens at the first smell of scent even though the first dog may, in fact, being finding the track sooner. I think the only good way to judge a track dog requires you to have something to compare your dog to. It seems to me the easiest way to make such comparisons is simply which dog gets treed first AND HAS A COON because getting treed first without a coon can't tell you anything good about a dog. But if one dog consistently trees ahead of the rest, that dog HAS to be a faster track dog doesn't it? Even if you have a dog that likes to get off alone, you still have other dogs that will go to that dogs track when he opens and throw in with him on that track. And if a dog takes that track and trees ahead, you know that dogs has got to be faster on the track.
For all the bad someone may think about comp hunts, the fact remains that if you see a dog out there that is consistently getting more first trees PLUSSED, that dog is prolly a superior track dog. Bottom line, the dog that is getting there first with the meat is surely getting there the fastest too. First tree dog equals fast track dog.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Re: The thing about track dogs.........

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
The tough part of judging track dogs is that there is basically no way to accurately measure tracking speed. We use our ears but our impressions from that are effected by a lot of other things that mess up those judgments. For instance a dog that uses a lot of mouth on track gives the impression of being a much faster track dog than one that is very tight mouthed. The same thing greatly effects how quick they get struck. A dog that never says a word until the track is straightened out and moving will give the impression of being a much slower to find a track than a loose mouth dog that opens at the first smell of scent even though the first dog may, in fact, being finding the track sooner. I think the only good way to judge a track dog requires you to have something to compare your dog to. It seems to me the easiest way to make such comparisons is simply which dog gets treed first AND HAS A COON because getting treed first without a coon can't tell you anything good about a dog. But if one dog consistently trees ahead of the rest, that dog HAS to be a faster track dog doesn't it? Even if you have a dog that likes to get off alone, you still have other dogs that will go to that dogs track when he opens and throw in with him on that track. And if a dog takes that track and trees ahead, you know that dogs has got to be faster on the track.
For all the bad someone may think about comp hunts, the fact remains that if you see a dog out there that is consistently getting more first trees PLUSSED, that dog is prolly a superior track dog. Bottom line, the dog that is getting there first with the meat is surely getting there the fastest too. First tree dog equals fast track dog.

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Jim Hill 651-775-1783

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http://minnesotastatecoonhunters.webs.com/

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Someone will surely bring up that first tree in a comp hunt just means the dog has a slicker handler, pitching them on the tree, treeing off other dogs locate, etc. And it darn sure happens, it happens around here. And EVERYONE knows who they are and what they are doing out there. You hit the hunts regular, you and everyone else knows who is honest, straight up and handling fair and square. And they all know who don't so you will toss those guys dogs out of the equation right off and consider only those dogs that are being handled honestly.
Even if a dog is usually split off by itself, if you are scoring that dogs tree first, he is doing something the faster than the others. Either tracking faster or finding coons that the other can't.
Treeing coons is 100% of what makes a coondog.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

#1. Won't a Garmin accurately measure track speed?

#2. I have seen dogs that were very slow on track and stood on their heads a lot when by themselves. But if you put them with a good track dog, then they looked great and had every first tree. They would just run along with the track dog, checking trees.

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
#2. I have seen dogs that were very slow on track and stood on their heads a lot when by themselves. But if you put them with a good track dog, then they looked great and had every first tree. They would just run along with the track dog, checking trees.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rough Northern
Your talking about a quick locating dog. There's a big difference in a fast track dog and a quick locator.

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A Garmin will measure speed but it tells you nothing about the quality of the track or other conditions that will effect track speed. I think you need another dog(s) to compare and make accurate judgments.

As for #2, I been around awhile and seen about everything but I never seen that dog standout or stick around very long. Hitchhikers are always found out and judged as such.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Jim that is a very good post and i agree with 90% of it. Some dogs may be very fast on track but be slow about checking a tree and locking down. Also they may not have a very good locate bark. My female blutick was faster than bubba on track. Hes the far better competition dog due to several thing, . His locate bark and his quickness to look up and lock it down. But princess could drive the track faster than him. I hunted them together. She was a very unique dog and combination of talents and also lack of talents.

you want a fast track dog?? get yourself a chop mough track dog

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If You Cant Stand Behide Our Troops ,Then Try Standing In Front Of Them
Jim Hill 651-775-1783

Been following these walker dogs since 1983,and love every min of it !!!!





http://minnesotastatecoonhunters.webs.com/

Use SunSpot Lights, so bright its like the sun came out at night !!!

quote:

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Originally posted by Jason Baldwin
Jim that is a very good post and i agree with 90% of it. Some dogs may be very fast on track but be slow about checking a tree and locking down. Also they may not have a very good locate bark.

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__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Hill
you want a fast track dog?? get yourself a chop mough track dog

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
#1. Won't a Garmin accurately measure track speed?

#2. I have seen dogs that were very slow on track and stood on their heads a lot when by themselves. But if you put them with a good track dog, then they looked great and had every first tree. They would just run along with the track dog, checking trees.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Rough Northern
I dont agree with that.

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__________________
If You Cant Stand Behide Our Troops ,Then Try Standing In Front Of Them
Jim Hill 651-775-1783

Been following these walker dogs since 1983,and love every min of it !!!!





http://minnesotastatecoonhunters.webs.com/

Use SunSpot Lights, so bright its like the sun came out at night !!!

I agree on the chop or squall mouth usually faster than bawl mouth. If I didn't have enough sense to determine if I had a fast or slow track dog I'd take up golf.

Lots of coon hunters don't have fast track dogs, and lots of coon hunters don't have slow track dogs, but in my years of coon hunting I have seen my share of halfassed track dogs.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkinriver
.... If I didn't have enough sense to determine if I had a fast or slow track dog I'd take up golf.

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I really think your shortchanging the garmin one the the greatest tools ever to come onto the hounddog world I mean its better than coca cola and sliced bread LOL. As far as averaging speed when ol spot opens start a new track or hunt, sure not all tracks are the same or conditions but with a little watching you will get a real good look at speed, We use this all the time in running our beagles.comparing speed among other things such as cutting and swinging on the line JMHO

I dont care if its greased lightning, i HATE chop mouth tracking.

quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Hill
you want a fast track dog?? get yourself a chop mough track dog

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So what do you guys consider the dogs that can burn a track up in the summertime but fall on their heads when it gets cold in winter??

When I think about track dogs I consider what a dog can do in the wintertime in rough conditions because I have personally seen some pretty lousy dogs look good in the summertime and then go weeks between treeing a coon in the winter.

My only fault with what Jim said is that unless you have a garmin on all dogs and hunt with them for several nights you really can't differentiate between a good track dog and a quick tree dog.

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Golden Woods Bo
Golden Woods Fancy B

drop your dog just after the frost lays down in the night you will get a good idea what kind of track dog you have or like you said in the winter when you have that dry cold ground. we have beagles that will stand on their heads in snow its just the dog. JMHO

Virgil, the short version of what I was saying is that a quick tree dog IS the fast track dog.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

yeah , if you go in and watch dogs work on a moonlit night .. you'd be surprised how much trust in your ears you will lose .

Same with locating ... sometimes the dog doing the real locating isn't as quick to bark and a me-too dog is stealing the tree.


You can never rely on just one sense to make judgements .... most of all sound which is subject to distortion in all sorts of ways.



Best way to judge a track dog ... is how long does it take them to get treed consistantly ... and how often do they run/tree coon other dogs have trouble with ... and how often do they tree ahead of other good dogs on the same track ....

.. if they do all of those things consistantly then you should be happy with what you have in the tracking department.

If you run them in the Daylight you can see how they hunt and what Track speed they have ...

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Just a question

Would the age of a track have any bearing on how fast a dog worked the track?

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