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-- Plott Hound in the Kemmer Cur? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=385165)
Plott Hound in the Kemmer Cur?
If this old post from another forum is true, there is not much doubt about it. Oh, by the way, it was written by a former KSBA registrar. "Just got back from hunting with a fellow in East Tennessee. We had a long walk next to the Smoky Mountain Naitonal Park. Talked dogs. Walked our butts off for one coon. Had 3 OMCBA curs, two 1 1/2 year olds and one 6 month old pup. My friend knew Kemmer way back when and sold him a dog and his friend sold him a dog. These two guys were some tough old bear hunters. They also knew Gene White who had plott dogs and lived in Knoxville. If there is a female named Midnight Sally or Black Sally, she is 3/4 plott and 1/4 pit. The sire of this dog was one of Carl Roark's best plotts. Robert bought two buckskin plotts from Gene White. They were out of Gene's Weems bred male and a cascade bred buckskin female plott. Gene bought this dog from Arza Scott who lived in Washinton state. She was a real bear dog. Silent until the jump but one of the best bear dogs I saw when I lived in Washington. Guess what this little buckskin plott's name was. BLONDIE. She was a Cascade bred plott and in Cascade Big Timber. The Weem's bred plott that Gene had and was bred to Blondie was Junior and he had one heck of a cold nose and was full open on track.
This is not BS. Just the facts. I have known the guys that told me this for years and they are brutal honest and don't see anything wrong with crosses. They don't like lying about the ancestors.
Don't mean to stir up crap. You likely already know this. Just figured that after what you been through with this bunch, you ought to know as much truth as possible.
The stupidity and greed in this is amazing. Nothing at all wrong with crossing plotts on curs and calling them Kemmers. The problem was lying about it. Guess the reason was to sell them as registered mountain curs. He should have come clean when the Kemmer registry was started. One of the ironic things was the deal that Cal Allen pulled. It was the same thing that Robert did but Cal didn't use a plott. However, Cal's dogs must do ok on big game out west. I wonder what Robert's reaction was to Cal's trick. Don't know how he could really condem the act with a straight face. Silence was probably the best course. I think the NKC has the best idea. The mountain curs are full of the same history. Made for better dogs I guess. Ought to be something in the by-laws of both organizations to open registration for both and allow outcrosses that will improve the breed and keep papers honest. If papers are honest, the foundation stock ( whatever that is ) people could avoid the new blood if they wanted. Figure that would be the best deal. As it is no one knows but most really do and look the other way and grumble or hunt the outcrosses and crow. Hunting dogs should be an evolving breed and the only way to really do that is outcrossing and selection. Oh well, I just wish I had a silent mouth, hard hunting dog that would give me a chance at bobcat on this Cumberland Plateau ledge country. I don't care it is pink poodle.
I personally hunted with Blondie. Blondie was a Cascade plott and one of the best little bear dogs you could ever want to see go. I would be glad if she was in my dogs pedigree. The Cascade line of dogs that deMoss had in Washington was really a line of dogs that Dee DeMoss stole from Everett Weems. Weems sent a bunch of pups out west for de Moss to hunt and Dee told Everett that they were no good and that he killed them. They were real good. They were Timber and his litermates. Blondie was inbred out of these dogs. A 25 year old alcoholic bear hunter who hunted with deMoss owened her. He needed beer money and Gene White bought her and brought her to Knoxville. Oliver Smith bought Timber and brought him to Knoxville. I think Oliver had some young dogs worked on caged bear at Renegade Resort in Crossville where Robert worked as a "guide". You could kill a polar bear at that place if you had enough money. Once saw a kid kill a grizzly bear at that place. They got the poor thing from a zoo and had it in a cage, turned it loose and put dogs on it. Think Robert may have liked the way the Cascade blood worked. Gene White had some dogs from Weem's stock. Junior and Little Junior were real cold nosed bear dogs. One of these dogs was bred to Blondie and some of the pups were buckskin like their mom. These are the ones that are supposed to have gone to Crossville. The sire of Black Sally was a top plott bear dog out RC Roark's line. So the dogs back there that were used were really good dogs. You got good dogs behind your dogs.
Bickford's last article in Full Cry was ironic. He mentioned talking about the Cascade line of plotts with Robert. Wonder how that converstion went.
Oliver used to advertize Timber as the world's greatest bear dog. He was good but no dog is that good but he and his littermates were the best built plotts that I ever saw and real good bear dogs. That is all that they were ever really hunted on. Cat and coon who knows. I would not call them good bobcat dogs on what I remember of them in the woods but they were never hunted on them to amount to anything so who knows."
Re: Plott Hound in the Kemmer Cur?
quote:
Originally posted by fdm
If this old post from another forum is true, there is not much doubt about it. Oh, by the way, it was written by a former KSBA registrar. "Just got back from hunting with a fellow in East Tennessee. We had a long walk next to the Smoky Mountain Naitonal Park. Talked dogs. Walked our butts off for one coon. Had 3 OMCBA curs, two 1 1/2 year olds and one 6 month old pup. My friend knew Kemmer way back when and sold him a dog and his friend sold him a dog. These two guys were some tough old bear hunters. They also knew Gene White who had plott dogs and lived in Knoxville. If there is a female named Midnight Sally or Black Sally, she is 3/4 plott and 1/4 pit. The sire of this dog was one of Carl Roark's best plotts. Robert bought two buckskin plotts from Gene White. They were out of Gene's Weems bred male and a cascade bred buckskin female plott. Gene bought this dog from Arza Scott who lived in Washinton state. She was a real bear dog. Silent until the jump but one of the best bear dogs I saw when I lived in Washington. Guess what this little buckskin plott's name was. BLONDIE. She was a Cascade bred plott and in Cascade Big Timber. The Weem's bred plott that Gene had and was bred to Blondie was Junior and he had one heck of a cold nose and was full open on track.
This is not BS. Just the facts. I have known the guys that told me this for years and they are brutal honest and don't see anything wrong with crosses. They don't like lying about the ancestors.
Don't mean to stir up crap. You likely already know this. Just figured that after what you been through with this bunch, you ought to know as much truth as possible.
The stupidity and greed in this is amazing. Nothing at all wrong with crossing plotts on curs and calling them Kemmers. The problem was lying about it. Guess the reason was to sell them as registered mountain curs. He should have come clean when the Kemmer registry was started. One of the ironic things was the deal that Cal Allen pulled. It was the same thing that Robert did but Cal didn't use a plott. However, Cal's dogs must do ok on big game out west. I wonder what Robert's reaction was to Cal's trick. Don't know how he could really condem the act with a straight face. Silence was probably the best course. I think the NKC has the best idea. The mountain curs are full of the same history. Made for better dogs I guess. Ought to be something in the by-laws of both organizations to open registration for both and allow outcrosses that will improve the breed and keep papers honest. If papers are honest, the foundation stock ( whatever that is ) people could avoid the new blood if they wanted. Figure that would be the best deal. As it is no one knows but most really do and look the other way and grumble or hunt the outcrosses and crow. Hunting dogs should be an evolving breed and the only way to really do that is outcrossing and selection. Oh well, I just wish I had a silent mouth, hard hunting dog that would give me a chance at bobcat on this Cumberland Plateau ledge country. I don't care it is pink poodle.
I personally hunted with Blondie. Blondie was a Cascade plott and one of the best little bear dogs you could ever want to see go. I would be glad if she was in my dogs pedigree. The Cascade line of dogs that deMoss had in Washington was really a line of dogs that Dee DeMoss stole from Everett Weems. Weems sent a bunch of pups out west for de Moss to hunt and Dee told Everett that they were no good and that he killed them. They were real good. They were Timber and his litermates. Blondie was inbred out of these dogs. A 25 year old alcoholic bear hunter who hunted with deMoss owened her. He needed beer money and Gene White bought her and brought her to Knoxville. Oliver Smith bought Timber and brought him to Knoxville. I think Oliver had some young dogs worked on caged bear at Renegade Resort in Crossville where Robert worked as a "guide". You could kill a polar bear at that place if you had enough money. Once saw a kid kill a grizzly bear at that place. They got the poor thing from a zoo and had it in a cage, turned it loose and put dogs on it. Think Robert may have liked the way the Cascade blood worked. Gene White had some dogs from Weem's stock. Junior and Little Junior were real cold nosed bear dogs. One of these dogs was bred to Blondie and some of the pups were buckskin like their mom. These are the ones that are supposed to have gone to Crossville. The sire of Black Sally was a top plott bear dog out RC Roark's line. So the dogs back there that were used were really good dogs. You got good dogs behind your dogs.
Bickford's last article in Full Cry was ironic. He mentioned talking about the Cascade line of plotts with Robert. Wonder how that converstion went.
Oliver used to advertize Timber as the world's greatest bear dog. He was good but no dog is that good but he and his littermates were the best built plotts that I ever saw and real good bear dogs. That is all that they were ever really hunted on. Cat and coon who knows. I would not call them good bobcat dogs on what I remember of them in the woods but they were never hunted on them to amount to anything so who knows."
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Re: Plott Hound in the Kemmer Cur?
quote:
Originally posted by fdm
If this old post from another forum is true, there is not much doubt about it. Oh, by the way, it was written by a former KSBA registrar. "Just got back from hunting with a fellow in East Tennessee. We had a long walk next to the Smoky Mountain Naitonal Park. Talked dogs. Walked our butts off for one coon. Had 3 OMCBA curs, two 1 1/2 year olds and one 6 month old pup. My friend knew Kemmer way back when and sold him a dog and his friend sold him a dog. These two guys were some tough old bear hunters. They also knew Gene White who had plott dogs and lived in Knoxville. If there is a female named Midnight Sally or Black Sally, she is 3/4 plott and 1/4 pit. The sire of this dog was one of Carl Roark's best plotts. Robert bought two buckskin plotts from Gene White. They were out of Gene's Weems bred male and a cascade bred buckskin female plott. Gene bought this dog from Arza Scott who lived in Washinton state. She was a real bear dog. Silent until the jump but one of the best bear dogs I saw when I lived in Washington. Guess what this little buckskin plott's name was. BLONDIE. She was a Cascade bred plott and in Cascade Big Timber. The Weem's bred plott that Gene had and was bred to Blondie was Junior and he had one heck of a cold nose and was full open on track.
This is not BS. Just the facts. I have known the guys that told me this for years and they are brutal honest and don't see anything wrong with crosses. They don't like lying about the ancestors.
Don't mean to stir up crap. You likely already know this. Just figured that after what you been through with this bunch, you ought to know as much truth as possible.
The stupidity and greed in this is amazing. Nothing at all wrong with crossing plotts on curs and calling them Kemmers. The problem was lying about it. Guess the reason was to sell them as registered mountain curs. He should have come clean when the Kemmer registry was started. One of the ironic things was the deal that Cal Allen pulled. It was the same thing that Robert did but Cal didn't use a plott. However, Cal's dogs must do ok on big game out west. I wonder what Robert's reaction was to Cal's trick. Don't know how he could really condem the act with a straight face. Silence was probably the best course. I think the NKC has the best idea. The mountain curs are full of the same history. Made for better dogs I guess. Ought to be something in the by-laws of both organizations to open registration for both and allow outcrosses that will improve the breed and keep papers honest. If papers are honest, the foundation stock ( whatever that is ) people could avoid the new blood if they wanted. Figure that would be the best deal. As it is no one knows but most really do and look the other way and grumble or hunt the outcrosses and crow. Hunting dogs should be an evolving breed and the only way to really do that is outcrossing and selection. Oh well, I just wish I had a silent mouth, hard hunting dog that would give me a chance at bobcat on this Cumberland Plateau ledge country. I don't care it is pink poodle.
I personally hunted with Blondie. Blondie was a Cascade plott and one of the best little bear dogs you could ever want to see go. I would be glad if she was in my dogs pedigree. The Cascade line of dogs that deMoss had in Washington was really a line of dogs that Dee DeMoss stole from Everett Weems. Weems sent a bunch of pups out west for de Moss to hunt and Dee told Everett that they were no good and that he killed them. They were real good. They were Timber and his litermates. Blondie was inbred out of these dogs. A 25 year old alcoholic bear hunter who hunted with deMoss owened her. He needed beer money and Gene White bought her and brought her to Knoxville. Oliver Smith bought Timber and brought him to Knoxville. I think Oliver had some young dogs worked on caged bear at Renegade Resort in Crossville where Robert worked as a "guide". You could kill a polar bear at that place if you had enough money. Once saw a kid kill a grizzly bear at that place. They got the poor thing from a zoo and had it in a cage, turned it loose and put dogs on it. Think Robert may have liked the way the Cascade blood worked. Gene White had some dogs from Weem's stock. Junior and Little Junior were real cold nosed bear dogs. One of these dogs was bred to Blondie and some of the pups were buckskin like their mom. These are the ones that are supposed to have gone to Crossville. The sire of Black Sally was a top plott bear dog out RC Roark's line. So the dogs back there that were used were really good dogs. You got good dogs behind your dogs.
Bickford's last article in Full Cry was ironic. He mentioned talking about the Cascade line of plotts with Robert. Wonder how that converstion went.
Oliver used to advertize Timber as the world's greatest bear dog. He was good but no dog is that good but he and his littermates were the best built plotts that I ever saw and real good bear dogs. That is all that they were ever really hunted on. Cat and coon who knows. I would not call them good bobcat dogs on what I remember of them in the woods but they were never hunted on them to amount to anything so who knows."
__________________
Pine Hill Kennels
Loyd McIntire
Re: Re: Plott Hound in the Kemmer Cur?
quote:
Originally posted by coondogedog
Was this "former registrar" given the boot for doing things he shouldn't have been doing?
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Why are you so excited? I just asked a question. I love Kool-Aid. I drink it by the gallon. I asked FDM the question, not you.
__________________
Pine Hill Kennels
Loyd McIntire
quote:
Originally posted by coondogedog
Why are you so excited? I just asked a question. I love Kool-Aid. I drink it by the gallon. I asked FDM the question, not you.
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Interesting first post.
Maybe some day you will come to the same conclusion that I have.
My conclusion is that I could care less about papers, pedigrees, or organizations. You look at the dog first. Where a buck is to be made, there will be crooks. Papers will make a crook a buck.
I am all about the dogs. The dog is what it is, regardless of its lineage.
With that said, I look back into pedigrees of dogs I KNOW.
I know those dogs, I know their faults, and their strong suits.
I can often see where a dog gets many of its traits.
I can talk to others that I TRUST about dogs in a pedigree.
No title ever made a dog, no papers ever made a dog.
However, titles and papers have kept a lot of culls alive because "they were worth something". Meaning they were going to sell the cull to some unsuspecting person that generally doesn't know much about dogs.
Re: Re: Plott Hound in the Kemmer Cur?
quote:
Originally posted by nccatfisher
Well now, how does it feel to have you head removed from that abyss known as Robert's butt and breathe fresh air for a while? I am pretty certain you have been told something along this line several times before. What was it you have been preaching about the only true 100% pure curs?
Charles, it is good of you to chime in. You have any comment about the papers turning up on these "feist" that are hybrids now?
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quote:
Originally posted by nccatfisher
Charles, it is good of you to chime in. You have any comment about the papers turning up on these "feist" that are hybrids now?
Well I guess there will be no more fish frys for me.
quote:
Originally posted by fdm
Well I guess there will be no more fish frys for me.
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quote:
Originally posted by TURBO DOG
Sure Tim, give me an example or some facts! Name a dog! Be glad to help you if I can!!
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quote:
Originally posted by nccatfisher
Yep that was what I thought.
And the truth shall set you free.
Guess what? come to find out TUBRO DOG is the President of the KSBA. Here is part of a old post of his on the Kemmer forum, "What an individual does with his dogs is his business! Like Calvin said, you can breed your white paper Kemmer to 'whatever' and that is no concern to the KSBA." From this sounds like anything goes in the KSBA. Wonder who they have got juggling the KSBA registry for them now?
Well, Phisher, where are the names?
__________________
Pine Hill Kennels
Loyd McIntire
CHARLES,
Are you the fella that Johnny Goss pimp slapped at a competition hunt?
__________________
Chad Smith
quote:
Originally posted by fdm
Guess what? come to find out TUBRO DOG is the President of the KSBA. Here is part of a old post of his on the Kemmer forum, "What an individual does with his dogs is his business! Like Calvin said, you can breed your white paper Kemmer to 'whatever' and that is no concern to the KSBA." From this sounds like anything goes in the KSBA. Wonder who they have got juggling the KSBA registry for them now?
quote:
Originally posted by coondogedog
Well, Phisher, where are the names?
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quote:
Originally posted by CHAD S
CHARLES,
Are you the fella that Johnny Goss pimp slapped at a competition hunt?
__________________
Visit my kennel at:
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quote:
Originally posted by fdm
Guess what? come to find out TUBRO DOG is the President of the KSBA. Here is part of a old post of his on the Kemmer forum, "What an individual does with his dogs is his business! Like Calvin said, you can breed your white paper Kemmer to 'whatever' and that is no concern to the KSBA." From this sounds like anything goes in the KSBA. Wonder who they have got juggling the KSBA registry for them now?
well i had a dog that was ksba reg and is out of jammie woods stock the dam was 100% and the sire was 85% when i got my papers back they were white when they changed the dogs to green i emailed turbo dog in 2005 he said he would look into the change guess what im still waiting its 2010 carla did sent me a letter that said robert sayed he didnt know the dogs whatever that ment ....... LMAO
__________________
donny bennett
quote:
Originally posted by fdm
Guess what? come to find out TUBRO DOG is the President of the KSBA. Here is part of a old post of his on the Kemmer forum, "What an individual does with his dogs is his business! Like Calvin said, you can breed your white paper Kemmer to 'whatever' and that is no concern to the KSBA." From this sounds like anything goes in the KSBA. Wonder who they have got juggling the KSBA registry for them now?
__________________
Not my president........
quote:
Originally posted by POP
being president of the ksba is like bragging about being the captain of the titanic.
__________________
Pine Hill Kennels
Loyd McIntire
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