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-- Proposal 12 - Scratched for Fighting (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928519206)

Wonder why it’s always the same people having to draw out and hunt with a mean dog? The mean ones are few and far between.

I'm still trying to understand two dogs tied to a truck while shining a tree. Do some of you drive to trees?

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Donald Bergeron

Here's how I see this.

Group 1) they have heartless gutless backpacking dogs that can't handle pressure of any kind and want tree jackers, blowers, and any dog that can win over there's scratched. I don't care for a true mean dog, never have and never will. They don't tend to make it here.

Group 2) this group likes mean dogs and prays on everyone else's dogs. And this type don't tend to be loners, they backpack more so than the typical cuz its how they win is to back a dog and run it off the tree. I hate type of dog and don't care much for the owners either.

Group 3) (my group)Dog doesn't take deal from others, but doesn't ever seem to fight anything unless teeth were applied to it. I don't want a mean dog. But I want 1 that doesn't take any deal from the rest of them. And honestly I like them to end the squabble fast and in a hurry. My Bildo dog I would definitely not put in the mean category. He would take some cheap but as soon as some teeth came in contact he ended it pretty quick only seen 2 dogs that he wouldn't tolerate on tree much. Both of those dogs would run other dogs off the tree. And I've got some good memories of the look on the handlers faces to those dogs when they couldn't run Bildo off a tree.

I know people are getting scratched for their dog defending itself, and honestly it happens more than most of want to admit. It won't effect me anyway this rule goes down. But I do happen to think you can't scratch a dog for a fight it didn't start. If you think that's right then you need to re-evaluate the sport if your choice. A dog defending itself doesn't mean a mean or aggressive dog. If you do then you fit in group 1.

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👆Well said sir.

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
why change a rule for the worse to fix the wrong problem? You keep saying it yourself, the judge ( real doozie)
Even the fellows on here don't have the balls or knowledge to judge the MOCH HUNT. Yes boys scratch them both. No use standing there trying to figure out the aggressor. That's just clueless and stupid.

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Re: Yes & No

quote:

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Originally posted by Rolin Blues
If you have 4 dogs treeing on tree, you have to see which 2 dogs are involved. It usually is a 'bad break' for someone for that hunt, but as a handler of a 'clean' tree dog, you go home knowing it's not going to happen again any time soon.

If only 2 dogs on tree & fight breaks out, I would also give them 1 warning to see if I could figure out who aggressor was UNLESS they are both balled up when I walk in. If next tree has a fight with different dog, then you can figure out who aggressor in first incident probably was. Take care, Ron.

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quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
Chey
The MOCH HUNT is in the post. You can judge it from where your at. No one else could.

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__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
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*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

This rule isn't grey in any way but I do not trust Joe blow that the local club has judging to be able to tell the difference in a dog fight and some blowing at a tree. There is also way to many ways to screw this up.

Chey, you mentioned earlier of a judge being able to basically scratch the whole cast with out seeing whats going on. They cant do that. In order for you to scratch 2 dogs for fighting you there can only be 2 dogs there and you must know without a doubt where the other dogs in the cast are. Lots of people miss that. You have to know for a fact there are only 2 dogs around that tree to scratch them.

I don't like this rule at all. Ukc should of never allowed it. Its not that it cant be done right because it can. The problem is 50% of the judges cant even right the scores on the card right and keep proper time. I'm not trusting them to scratch 2 dogs without seeing them fighting.

My dog trees with a steady chop then breaks loose with a bunch of screaming and squalling then back to chopping. It sounds like a war is going on in there. The thing is he sounds the exact same way by himself. I know that with this rule I'll run into a judge one day that will try to scratch him and that is just his tree style. Needs done away with.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Your stupid for having both dogs together on a tailgate. If it wasn't during the duration of the hunt I don't care what they do. I guess if I'm judge and they did it under my authority after the card was given out they'd be scratched if the were actually fighting out, If not no interference can happen while on the leash so nothing would happen. The handlers may have been scratched before the dogs if y'all get along as well at a hunt as you do here.

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I have only seen 10 mean dogs in 40 years there is a difference in a mean dog and one that just don’t like or agitated at anouther. Most of the ones I seen were back when we had non hunting judges on champion cast or mostly at higher level hunts. If you can see your dog is not wanting to get along with the other dogs in the cast you as a handler should withdraw and as a judge I will give you that oppertunity. But you force a mean dog on the cast and you think it’s cute you will be scratched.


But we also got to realize dogs are animals they sense things we do not and the will defend their self. I go through a lot of dogs to find the ones that just back up and get out of the way.


Tar

Boy reading this thread has told me all I need to know about the Mafia team

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Oh my goodness, you can't tie your dog up close to another dog without it getting into a fight? What happens when you put it into a dogbox with another dog? Or what happens when another dog is treeing right beside him?

It is called common sense.

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Oh my goodness, this is getting better than "The Young and the Restless" or "As The World Turns".

can we scratch handlers for fighting ? or do we have to see it !

This "poll" has been viewed 4,000 times but only 100 people have voted and it is a 50/50 tie on whether to change the rule or not.

I have hunted in 500 UKC casts (just guessing but sounds about right) and I have never seen dogs get scratched for fighting that were not fighting. On the other hand, I have heard a lot of dogs that I thought were fighting that didn't get scratched. So, leave the rule alone or you will just have a bunch of light broke fighting dogs. Yes there is always the theoretical chance that a judge could scratch dogs that weren't really fighting but in the real world, it just doesn't happen. "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

T Felderman

Bring it on, this weekend in Wisc. There might be a little spur under the saddle waiting for you!! Or is that burr?? you figure it out!!!!! Take care, Ron.

Ive said it before i'll say it again ...
If you're ok with dogs fighting or want to fight dogs there are places underground you can do it . This is the sport of COONHUNTING . If you yourself want to fight there are places for that as well . Let the rest of us who want COONHUNT , COONHUNT and the ones who dont care to or have knowledge enough to break a problem dog , well , your possibly gonna get scratched . Its your dice to roll . It is what it is . Pack a clean dog you'll have a clean card.

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Toad Hill

Truer words were never spoken. Take care, Ron.

Im

Going to agree with Richard on this one. I been in several hunts in my 68 years and never seen dogs scratched from listening from a distance and only a very very few scratched when looking at them.

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Bob Turnbow 931-212-0069

Very Well Stated

quote:

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Originally posted by Toad Hill
Ive said it before i'll say it again ...
If you're ok with dogs fighting or want to fight dogs there are places underground you can do it . This is the sport of COONHUNTING . If you yourself want to fight there are places for that as well . Let the rest of us who want COONHUNT , COONHUNT and the ones who dont care to or have knowledge enough to break a problem dog , well , your possibly gonna get scratched . Its your dice to roll . It is what it is . Pack a clean dog you'll have a clean card.

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Re: Aggressive Dogs or Dishonest Judges

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
The innocent dog has a choice when attacked of either giving ground, fighting back, or leaving the tree. A lot of young dogs don't realize that they can backup and stay. They view it as fight or flight situation. My dogs first encounter with an aggressive dog is probably at a competition hunt as I won't knowing hunt with one.
When you hear a fight and discover bloody dogs it could be two aggressive dogs, but it could be that one dog refused to leave the tree and the innocent dog fought in self defense.

There isn't a perfect solution, but it is time to quit penalizing the innocent and identify the crooked judge and aggressive dog. And I don't just mean taking it to the Master Of Hounds. I encourage you to file a written report with UKC so that the parties in question have a record on file for when they do it again.

IF YOU NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION THEN ARE PROBABLY THE PROBLEM. Ken Risley

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Observing Aggression before Scratching

Has UKC made a final ruling on this??

quote:

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Originally posted by pamjohnson
why change a rule for the worse to fix the wrong problem? You keep saying it yourself, the judge ( real doozie)
Even the fellows on here don't have the balls or knowledge to judge the MOCH HUNT. Yes boys scratch them both. No use standing there trying to figure out the aggressor. That's just clueless and stupid.

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