UKC Forums - Question for officials and avid competition hunters over non hunting dogs

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-- Question for officials and avid competition hunters over non hunting dogs (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928504637)

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 05-23-2018 02:11 PM:

Did not single out anyone

Rip i never wont to hurt anyone nor say damaging things to a single person, just wonted to let people think about their answers you know everyone does not have a rule book to go by they just hear and react.
So no I was not singling out anyone just a GENERAL observation and by the way Tar ever once in a while rules are changed just a little don;t you agree.
Back on this computer been RAINING every night the past 2 weeks ant been hunting in so long gona need to show the old dog a picture of a coon so he will know what to do.

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Posted by JiM on 05-23-2018 02:29 PM:

Sometimes I choose to reply to a rule question with a specific rule number instead of a direct answer. My feeling is that first of all, anyone answering rule questions should have an up to date rule book and secondly, the rules can be accessed right here on UKC's website so there is really no reason to not be able to look it up.

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Posted by H. L. Meyer on 05-23-2018 02:32 PM:

Tar

YOU ARE CORRECT on the way you and I were taught BUT !!!!! that was then not NOW
TRY THIS ON FOR SIZE
1- call my dog if yours barks first ( he will open soon enough)
2- Fuss over every little thing( I will win sooner or later)
3- go blind at every tree that my dog was not at( and see every knot
hole in a tree with no coon in it that my dog had a first and first on)
4- na spoiled brat that don't know the word NO ( so u are wrong there
was a coon in my dog's tree u just did not wont to see it)
5- I did! you are out here to win and so am I
What do u say about this ?
HUMMMMMM could it be the reason the numbers are down at the clubs
Very few MEN now days and even fewer LADIES. A lot of males and females though.

__________________
SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 05-23-2018 02:37 PM:

By the way jiM

YOU are a shining STAR on this board ALMOST never incorrect with your answer SEE i have a r/book and look up most of your answers so KEEP UP THE GOOD RESPONSE we can learn a lot from them. H L MEYER

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Posted by joey on 05-23-2018 03:23 PM:

Rip is right the dog is to be handled. It does not have to be Treeing to be at the tree. As a matter of fact it doesn't even have to walk up to the tree. Just up to one of the handlers. The handler is "at" the tree. In the other Kc's the dog has to be showing tree but not in UKC.

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Posted by novicane65 on 05-23-2018 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Rip is right the dog is to be handled. It does not have to be Treeing to be at the tree. As a matter of fact it doesn't even have to walk up to the tree. Just up to one of the handlers. The handler is "at" the tree. In the other Kc's the dog has to be showing tree but not in UKC.

For you to handle your dog it has to be struck in at least. You don't have to tree your dog if he's not alone and you think it's wrong. But you can't handle the dog without it being struck in first. If you do it's a scratch. At least that's my understanding of it and everyone I've hunted with at every hunt including the world hunt in pkc.

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And
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Posted by joey on 05-23-2018 04:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
For you to handle your dog it has to be struck in at least. You don't have to tree your dog if he's not alone and you think it's wrong. But you can't handle the dog without it being struck in first. If you do it's a scratch. At least that's my understanding of it and everyone I've hunted with at every hunt including the world hunt in pkc.

In PKC yes but not in UKC. If the dog comes into the tree its handled. If its struck in or not.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 05-23-2018 05:17 PM:

joey

Where did u get your information?

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Posted by thomasg on 05-23-2018 07:11 PM:

Re: Well I'm gona chime in

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Just wonder how many people are citing things they believe are correct from memory or hear say verses citing things from the rule book that they have with them. some times a comma or a period makes a whole lot of difference. Better than that how many people even have a rule book to refer to and better than that a current one.

i have current one in top storage of the dog box at every hunt i attend . some times i carry it in my back pocket . u.k.c. made them perfect size to slip and ride well in the back pocket .lol

Posted by joey on 05-23-2018 07:12 PM:

Re: joey

quote:
Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Where did u get your information?

From the first paragraph of the score card;

In addition to the rules on the scorecard, the Official UKC Coonhound
Rulebook and the most recent Coonhound Advisor columns in COONHOUND
BLOODLINES contain additional rules, statements of policies and interpretations
of UKC rules pertaining to the conducting of UKC events. All event activities,
rules, policy applications and interpretations are subject to the final decision by
UKC in its sole judgment and discretion.

And

11.(b) After Arriving At Tree. After five minutes, first dog’s tree may be scored.
Dog should not be minused tree points if he comes back a short distance to
meet handler if dog goes back in and trees satisfactorily. Dogs at tree must be leashed.

Its what Allen has instructed us to do in the past. This isn't the first time this question has been brought up. When a dog comes into a tree its handled. If its showing tree or not.

Posted by JiM on 05-23-2018 07:26 PM:

11(b) doesn't say "Dogs at tree must be leashed unless not struck). It just says "Dogs at tree must be leashed."

Posted by yadkintar on 05-23-2018 07:47 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
There is a difference of at the tree and at the tree !! How far would you let a dog be off the tree before you would minuse it if it is far enough to be minused for being off the tree it is to far to be handled and stop the time jmo.

Tar

Me still says this lol.

Posted by joey on 05-23-2018 07:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
11(b) doesn't say "Dogs at tree must be leashed unless not struck). It just says "Dogs at tree must be leashed."

I know Jim the must be struck was in responce to someone else comment. In PKC they have to be treeing to be handled at the tree and they have to be struck to be doing that. That's what the comment was about. In UKC if they come walking in, struck or not they get handled.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 05-23-2018 08:40 PM:

BINGO

There you go in writing not opinions. no discussion. cant argue with print. At least that is what my U K C rule book says. don't get confused with others talking about U K C rules now

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Posted by Billy Beckham on 05-23-2018 11:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I may be mistaken but I think you are wrong on that. Stopping the hunt clock doesn't break the 15.

I didn't say it stopped the 15 but it broke the "consecutive" part of the time. So if you are going to minus me for a dog that didn't go hunting for 15 consecutive minutes you lost your case.

funny how folks are scared of the non hunting dog beating them

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Posted by Donnie Stevens on 05-23-2018 11:11 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
I didn't say it stopped the 15 but it broke the "consecutive" part of the time. So if you are going to minus me for a dog that didn't go hunting for 15 consecutive minutes you lost your case.

funny how folks are scared of the non hunting dog beating them

I don't think Jim would minus anybody because their dog wouldn't go hunting for 15 mins lol

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Posted by shawnstovall on 05-23-2018 11:40 PM:

6(c) Failing to make an attempt to hunt within any 15 consecutive scorecard minutes.

11(b) After Arriving At Tree. After five minutes, first dog’s tree may be scored. Dog should not be minused tree points if he comes back a short distance to meet handler if the dog goes back in and trees satisfactorily. Dogs at tree must be leashed.

Here's were the rules help that no hunting dog that just hangs out. Because once you score that tree and move that consecutive time has stopped, and that dog gets a new 15 min. One way to stop that is if you can hunt in the same spot or go to your breed association and have them make a rule change next time they meet with UKC on the rules and hope that the breeds will vote yes on them. Because the last time we had a rules meeting the ABTCHA took several rule changes to this meeting that would help the hunts and not one was passed so good luck on that.

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Posted by JiM on 05-23-2018 11:47 PM:

No, you are mistaken. Moving or calling timeout does not break the 15. That has been explained in the Advisor.

Posted by JiM on 05-23-2018 11:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
I didn't say it stopped the 15 but it broke the "consecutive" part of the time. So if you are going to minus me for a dog that didn't go hunting for 15 consecutive minutes you lost your case.

funny how folks are scared of the non hunting dog beating them

8

Funny how someone would equate a discussion of rules with fear of getting beat but whatever....
This is what I know for sure about the non-huntung dog rule, the time can stop and start but it isn't broke unless the dog goes hunting. Score a tree, call time out, move to a new spot and the non-hunting rule continues were it left off.
And if it catches the dog, it isn't minused, it is scratched.

Posted by Joe Moore on 05-24-2018 02:52 AM:

Bingo!

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
8

Funny how someone would equate a discussion of rules with fear of getting beat but whatever....
This is what I know for sure about the non-huntung dog rule, the time can stop and start but it isn't broke unless the dog goes hunting. Score a tree, call time out, move to a new spot and the non-hunting rule continues were it left off.
And if it catches the dog, it isn't minused, it is scratched.

__________________
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Posted by Billy Beckham on 05-24-2018 12:15 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
8

Funny how someone would equate a discussion of rules with fear of getting beat but whatever....
This is what I know for sure about the non-huntung dog rule, the time can stop and start but it isn't broke unless the dog goes hunting. Score a tree, call time out, move to a new spot and the non-hunting rule continues were it left off.
And if it catches the dog, it isn't minused, it is scratched.

Why were they wanting to stop the timer for the non hunting dog while at the tree?

for the record I have no issue scratching a non hunting dog. I just lost one that would get hot while treed. He wouldn't leave you until he cooled off enough to hunt. I've seen this rule applied under the sun.

__________________
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618-214-0065

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Posted by yadkintar on 05-24-2018 12:31 PM:

Billy we can quote rules with the card in our lap all day long but as a judge believe it or not I ain't going to give you the axe over something trivial. Your dog is easy and close to the tree handle him but ain't going to let nobody chase their dog down to stop the clock. Any judge that has been in the dog world any time knows what is bs and what is not man don't like a hunting judges decision (mine) they can always call for a majority vote they might see it different than me but very seldom have I ever had to scratch anybody or ask them to take their minus a whole lot depends how a judge conducts himself.

Tar

Posted by JiM on 05-24-2018 03:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billy Beckham
Why were they wanting to stop the timer for the non hunting dog while at the tree?

Because dogs at the tree must be leashed and you can't run the 15 minutes on a dog that is leashed.

Posted by joey on 05-24-2018 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Billy we can quote rules with the card in our lap all day long but as a judge believe it or not I ain't going to give you the axe over something trivial. Your dog is easy and close to the tree handle him but ain't going to let nobody chase their dog down to stop the clock. Any judge that has been in the dog world any time knows what is bs and what is not man don't like a hunting judges decision (mine) they can always call for a majority vote they might see it different than me but very seldom have I ever had to scratch anybody or ask them to take their minus a whole lot depends how a judge conducts himself.

Tar

Lol no one said anything about chasing dogs down. If your at a tree and a dog is standing around he gets leashed. If he is gone the 15 is broke anyway and there is no question on what to do.

Posted by yadkintar on 05-24-2018 03:32 PM:

Joey I know we got the same birthday but quit being so hard headed lol ! I am talking about 15 to 25 feet away sniffing around I know with all of your vast experience you have seen the type won't come into the tree but won't go hunting either geeeeeez.

Tar

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