UKC Forums - Amazing to me.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-06-2019 02:04 PM:

Amazing to me.

Had a young hunter tell me yesterday our dogs back in the day run all night and didn’t tree. First of all he wasent even born back then to know. I told him huh guess we got all those hides we sold spot lighting and those 800+ scores were fake in 3 hr hunts. They accuse our dogs for doing the same thing their dogs are doing now only now they only got 125 + 😂

Tar

Posted by Preacher Tom on 10-06-2019 02:39 PM:

But Tar I did have some of those dogs that ran all night. I just didn't have them long, lol.

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Posted by oldsouth123 on 10-06-2019 06:12 PM:

Tar

Funny thing is back in the old days the dogs that did tree had something in the tree when they did tree.Also they had to have plus points to win,or even to finish the cast.You hunted three hours and if you got four hundred minus points your hunt was over regardless of how many plus points you had.At the world hunt you had to hunt three hours every cast,even the night you hunted alone.There was no tree a quick one and quit and you hunted a total of five nights and remember you had to have plus points to advance,also there was no re-entry.When you minused out you were done till the next year.Check the nightly scores on all of the big hunts and remember it don't matter which night, you've got to finish with plus points every cast to advance and hunt the whole three hours alone''that's to prove that he can do it alone without minusing out''As I mentioned check the scores on all of the KC's and see how many you'll have for the finals.Maybe the oldtime dogs weren't as bad as some would have you believe.

Posted by oldsouth123 on 10-06-2019 06:22 PM:

Tar

Oh,I forgot you spent the last hour and a half trying not to lose what you got the first hour and a half.Try pleasure hunting by these rules a couple of nights and I believe you'll gain a new respect for the old timers,their hounds and their hunts.

Posted by Chuck Allen on 10-06-2019 06:30 PM:

Tom how long do you think our hounds will run tonight? lol

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-06-2019 07:26 PM:

Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by oldsouth123
Oh,I forgot you spent the last hour and a half trying not to lose what you got the first hour and a half.Try pleasure hunting by these rules a couple of nights and I believe you'll gain a new respect for the old timers,their hounds and their hunts.

There is one good exzample I will give you. This years ukc world champion I know the kid him and his dog would have been winners back in they day also Because of their work ethic it took hard work.

Tar

Posted by Preacher Tom on 10-06-2019 07:29 PM:

Chuck I don't think any of the Arkansas coon run as far as those western Oklahoma coon I grew up chasing. I really love a good race but only when they tree a coon at the end.

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Posted by Chuck Allen on 10-06-2019 08:53 PM:

IT IS raining here , what is it doing at your house?

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Posted by Preacher Tom on 10-06-2019 10:14 PM:

Got 3.5 inches but since 1;00 just a few showers. Up around the airport they got 10 in some places. We could hunt here and stay out of the water but we will get wet from the grass and weeds. Whatever you want to do.

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Posted by Pigeon on 10-07-2019 01:21 AM:

It’s amazing to me so many want to change rules to a kennel club starving to survive.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 10-07-2019 02:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Pigeon
It’s amazing to me so many want to change rules to a kennel club starving to survive.

Amazes me some people don't want to change anything to a kennel club starving to survive.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-07-2019 12:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Amazes me some people don't want to change anything to a kennel club starving to survive.

Josh to me and you these changes are not new. I joined $$$ when it first started I personally have hunted under 4 different kennel clubs rules and don’t think anything about it. Ukc might not be making as much profit as they like but their registry is second to none make no mistake about it when they start passing out those big checks you won’t have to wait long for them and they won’t bounce. For those who want to set on a stump and whine by all means go ahead !! Just don’t expect everybody else to set there with you.................we be hunten!!

Tar

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-07-2019 01:13 PM:

Tar you had a opportunity and I hope you didn't want to get os a soapbox with the kid and miss the opportunity.

It is true that back in the day the dogs. Not all but many of them wanted to run a lot more than they treed. If you don't agree with that. I have to wonder what you were doing back in the day.

Today, many want to tree more than run/track. It is balance that we want and hopefully you explained that to the young man and that balance comes through genetics.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-07-2019 01:27 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar you had a opportunity and I hope you didn't want to get os a soapbox with the kid and miss the opportunity.

It is true that back in the day the dogs. Not all but many of them wanted to run a lot more than they treed. If you don't agree with that. I have to wonder what you were doing back in the day.

Today, many want to tree more than run/track. It is balance that we want and hopefully you explained that to the young man and that balance comes through genetics.

Bruce I explained that depending on coon population and terrain makes a lot of difference on the style of dog you hunt. Ball made a fortune taking dogs from down here and selling them up north. I explained I like a running dog that will tree. That type dog will most of the time be ahead of the pack on any kind of track. And that type of dog usually has enough sense to have a coon in its trees. In the fall here when the pecans and acorns are on there are some layups and easy coons to tree ( persimmons and hackberries get you in trouble ) other than that this country is rough and you better have a track dog.

It’s been that way down here since the late 70’s you learn over time to much tree dog will not work and it will make your neck sore lol.

Tar

Posted by novicane65 on 10-07-2019 02:34 PM:

Re: Amazing to me.

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Had a young hunter tell me yesterday our dogs back in the day run all night and didn’t tree. First of all he wasent even born back then to know. I told him huh guess we got all those hides we sold spot lighting and those 800+ scores were fake in 3 hr hunts. They accuse our dogs for doing the same thing their dogs are doing now only now they only got 125 + 😂

Tar

Well wasn't long ago I had a young female that wouldn't tree. And by not long ago, it was 2 years ago. She could absolutely fly on track. Had a good nose and a good mouth. We messed with her for a I around 6 months. By that point she was a little over 2 - 2.5 years old. She just wouldn't look up. And I've had some dogs that couldn't run a track hardly at all but they'd tree a lot. And by a lot they'd tree about every 5 minutes. In both cases there was too much of each trait and not enough of the other. I wouldn't make such a broad statement as this young man did. But rather I'd just say that on average the dogs "back in the day" (before the 90's) normally would trail but not tree too much.

It's a fine line on too much and not enough of any trait.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-07-2019 02:50 PM:

Re: Re: Amazing to me.

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Well wasn't long ago I had a young female that wouldn't tree. And by not long ago, it was 2 years ago. She could absolutely fly on track. Had a good nose and a good mouth. We messed with her for a I around 6 months. By that point she was a little over 2 - 2.5 years old. She just wouldn't look up. And I've had some dogs that couldn't run a track hardly at all but they'd tree a lot. And by a lot they'd tree about every 5 minutes. In both cases there was too much of each trait and not enough of the other. I wouldn't make such a broad statement as this young man did. But rather I'd just say that on average the dogs "back in the day" (before the 90's) normally would trail but not tree too much.

It's a fine line on too much and not enough of any trait.

We culled those we was skinnen coons pilgrim !!

Tar

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-07-2019 02:51 PM:

Sounds like you did well Tar.

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Posted by Dave Richards on 10-08-2019 03:18 AM:

Tar

Those 3 hour hunts were a true test for a coondog, these 1 hour hunts are no better than a coin toss, to many are decided on the first set of strike points. We will never get the 3 hour hunts back for several reasons, but I still think they were the best for determining the best coondog in the cast. Dave

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Posted by Team Mafia 2 on 10-08-2019 04:19 AM:

One thing I Know is they All get better after they are dead. I look at it like this. If the dogs of yesterday were truly better than the dogs of today you older guys have failed my generation in the breeding department. All of you guys talk about breeding for better dogs every time and if you’ve done that there shouldn’t be a comparison to the dogs of yesterday to the dogs of today. What I’m getting at is You older guys that truly believe dogs were better 40 years ago are either A) Worthless breeders B) Liars (c Stuck in the past. Just let me know which one y’all want to admit to being.

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Posted by Dave Richards on 10-08-2019 05:24 AM:

Dalton Cummings

I don't believe the dogs of yesterday were better than the dogs of today. I actually believe the dogs of today are better across the board. I do think the 3 hour hunts were tougher and the cast winner was usually the best coondog. I think the hour hunts often times are decided on the very first set of strike points on who strikes first, you could not do that in a 3 hour hunt. I truly believe that some breeders are producing better dogs today than yesterday dogs across the board. Now I don't think the tracking power overall is better today, I think we have lost some truly great cold nosed tracking ability from our current stock of dogs ( with exception ). Part of that has to do with the type of hounds being competition hunted and winning the hunts. No one wants a cold trailing dig that trees 2 0r 2 coons in a hunt, they want hotter nosed multiply coon treed type of hound. The ones that demand the cold trailing dogs are still breeding those type of hounds albeit a minority. If coons were scarce and hides were high, you would see the demand go up for the cold nosed track dogs. It's all about supply and DEMAND. It's not as simply as poor breeding, it's what sells. Better or worse depends on what one desired be it yesterday or today dogs. My younger friends absolutely detest a cold trailing dog, that want action and action quick. Hard to defend one type over another type, coons are more plentiful today and the hotter nosed dogs excel in the hunts, the old hide hunters needed the cold track dogs as every hide mattered. Hope you see my point, I certainly see yours and neither is wrong, it's only a choice. Dave. p.s. It's late and I am not going back to correct spelling. Lol.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-08-2019 12:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
One thing I Know is they All get better after they are dead. I look at it like this. If the dogs of yesterday were truly better than the dogs of today you older guys have failed my generation in the breeding department. All of you guys talk about breeding for better dogs every time and if you’ve done that there shouldn’t be a comparison to the dogs of yesterday to the dogs of today. What I’m getting at is You older guys that truly believe dogs were better 40 years ago are either A) Worthless breeders B) Liars (c Stuck in the past. Just let me know which one y’all want to admit to being.

Dalton you don’t and can’t understand because you were not there. But your dad was and he will tell you there were grade dogs back then that could mop everything in y’all’s or my pen. Now hanging on to it ? That was 40 yrs ago and like everybody else most including myself got lured into breeding to the next big thing. Then it’s kinda like skunk spray takes just a second to get it on you but a long time to get off. Most of the most bred to popular dogs were bred to just to sell $1,000 worthless pups now everybody has some of it. The biggest difference I see is they train their dogs not to compete against the other dogs. Our dogs packed and the indifferent athlete that out ran and out treed the same coon as the other dogs without mistakes won. And it was not unusual to see a dog tree hot coons,cold coons,and layups all the same dog on the same cast. I guess I am all 3 of those things but I am also good at being a bur under you young farts saddle too lol.

Tar

Posted by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-08-2019 12:54 PM:

First of all how many of the old dogs are you comparing to todays dogs. If your choosing one from the past and one from today. Both very nice hounds and they could compete with one another.
If your comparing 100 of yesterdays dogs to 100 of todays dogs. Yesterday will fall far short.

Good dogs are found and handled by good dog men. Yesterday or today. We have a totally different style gaining recognition of the top dogs. And promoting our dogs.

Back years ago people didn't see a lot of these top dogs go. They read about them going and then bred to them. Today they can see results of the top dogs. If they can't get to see the dog they should be able to find someone they trust that did.

Years ago getting a top dog and making money with it was a way of digging yourself out of a financial hole and a benefit to the family. Today following these hounds are a way to put yourself into a financial hole. That is why you have to be more honest with yourself today about what is on your lead. If your going to try and push the offspring of your wonder dog off on the public. Why because everyone has information on your hound if you have hunted it. Some dogs make men wonder more than they are the wonder dog the owner think they are.

Tar, sorry I missed your calls yesterday. I have my Grandson out of the store out in Nebraska deer hunting and last night I was in a restaurant eating dinner with some friends when you called. I am running late now getting ready to head to the store but I will call before noon when I find a minute.

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Posted by yadkintar on 10-08-2019 01:39 PM:

All I know and it is written in history. You went to a major hunt and mr merchant , mr house , mr meers, mr Bellar , mr Clark , mr dohoney, mr olney , and many more were there hunting what they bred and the hides were high and the coons were thin and they made no excuses. Hides are worthless coons are thick and all I hear is excuses and relying on plan b to win.

Tar

Posted by Richard Lambert on 10-08-2019 02:12 PM:

I went to the Indiana State Championship this past weekend and I saw Mr Jim Ridge there. He had a couple of pretty nice hounds. I went to Autumn Oaks and saw Bryan Whitted there with a nice hound. I also saw Cheyenne Cummings at AO. I wonder how Shack would look against those old dogs. Tarbaby, maybe you should go to some of the major hunts of today before you start saying there aren't breeders with good dogs there. The men with good dogs that are winning aren't making excuses. Only the interweb hunters that got beat are making excuses. I don't see Mr Scott Engle making any excuses.

Posted by yadkintar on 10-08-2019 02:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I went to the Indiana State Championship this past weekend and I saw Mr Jim Ridge there. He had a couple of pretty nice hounds. I went to Autumn Oaks and saw Bryan Whitted there with a nice hound. I also saw Cheyenne Cummings at AO. I wonder how Shack would look against those old dogs. Tarbaby, maybe you should go to some of the major hunts of today before you start saying there aren't breeders with good dogs there. The men with good dogs that are winning aren't making excuses. Only the interweb hunters that got beat are making excuses. I don't see Mr Scott Engle making any excuses.

Never said the are not good breeders now. Just sticking up for the ones that they discredited back then.

Tar

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