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-- question (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928427116)

Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 06:46 PM:

question

Dog is struck in. Is at slick not treeing when we get there. What happens to strike points. Minus, circle, delete.

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Posted by groworg1 on 08-23-2015 07:08 PM:

minus

Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 07:27 PM:

question

What rule are you quoting?

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Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
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Posted by RLenhart on 08-23-2015 07:29 PM:

Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 07:37 PM:

question

Read post again. Dog was NOT treeing. Showed no signs of treeing.

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Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by groworg1 on 08-23-2015 07:41 PM:

4a dog quit track ! sorry it took so long wanted to get my rule book

Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 07:44 PM:

dog

dog did not come to us. was around tree when we got there. Don't think that rule applies.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by sleepy head on 08-23-2015 07:53 PM:

Did you handle the dog?

Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 07:55 PM:

yes.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by sleepy head on 08-23-2015 07:58 PM:

He has to get minus

Posted by JiM on 08-23-2015 09:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by groworg1
4a dog quit track ! sorry it took so long wanted to get my rule book

4-a does not apply to this situation. Dogs handled at tree are never considered to have quit track because they are REQUIRED to be handled at a tree.
I think 4-k is the right answer. A dog handled at the tree when the cast arrives is considered treed, barking or not. Just as only one dog is required to bark when multiple dogs are treed. I think his strike is minused under 4-k and he is also assigned next available position on tree and minused those points also.

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Posted by GA DAWG on 08-23-2015 09:30 PM:

Yep. Double whammy cause its a slick tree. Dog should of went on somewhere else.

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Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 11:05 PM:

question

I agree dog should have been some where else. Tough situation. The tree had fallen into river. Coon took to the water. Third dog was there also so by Jims account he would be given tree points also and minused. 4-k says treeing but not declared.
No problem on cast. No score. I would just like to know.
Nobody so far has quoted a rule that fits.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-23-2015 11:10 PM:

The tree had fell plum into the river?

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Michael Ghorley

Posted by sleepy head on 08-23-2015 11:13 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GA DAWG
The tree had fell plum into the river?

Lol 😁

Posted by brujan182 on 08-23-2015 11:17 PM:

QUESTION

One of dogs was pretty big. He leaned on it to hard.

__________________
Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 03:22 AM:

Re: question

quote:
Originally posted by brujan182
I agree dog should have been some where else. Tough situation. The tree had fallen into river. Coon took to the water. Third dog was there also so by Jims account he would be given tree points also and minused. 4-k says treeing but not declared.
No problem on cast. No score. I would just like to know.
Nobody so far has quoted a rule that fits.

The rule I can see that best "fits", now that we know "the rest of the story" {you never mentioned a river} is 5 {A} "In case of running coon in a hole OR PLACE OF REFUGE OTHER THAN A TREE....

It sounds like it was pretty easily determined that because you could see the entire tree laying there that the coon had to have gone on into the water and made a clean get away. In this case the "place of refuge other than a tree" was water. The coon ran across the tree and jumped in the water {sought refuge} to get away. This is definitely one of those "had to be there" calls, but I would give the dogs the benefit of the doubt given the above info and circle.

There's a lot more to rule 5 {a} than what I wrote...suggest you read the rest.

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 03:37 AM:

A river is not a place of refuge. That is ridiculous. 4-k is the rule that applies.

Posted by msinc on 08-24-2015 03:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
A river is not a place of refuge. That is ridiculous. 4-k is the rule that applies.

You are correct...page 135 second edition Advisor. Endless apologies...a thousand pardons.
I don't know why it is so ridiculous though...in many states, mine being one of them, the game laws state that it is against the law to shoot any animal that has sought REFUGE in water. UKC don't see it like that though and that is all that matters.

Posted by B Thompson on 08-24-2015 04:59 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by JiM

I think 4-k is the right answer. A dog handled at the tree when the cast arrives is considered treed, barking or not. .

I got this off the Advisor Q & A. How is this different from above

Nite Champion Not Opened or Treeing with Possum in Tree

Q: In a four dog Nite Champion cast, Dogs A, B and C are declared struck and treed. D has not opened. After the five is up, we go in and find all four dogs at the tree. Dog D is seen raring up on the tree and smelling but does not bark and has not been heard opening any other time. How do you score Dog D?

A: Rule 6(k) applies to this situation which states, (dogs are scratched) in Nite Champion and Grand Nite Champion casts for running, treeing or molesting off game during hunting time, including any time out periods that prior to the expiration of hunt time.

We have to key in on three verbs in this rule when determining how to score Dog D. 1) running, 2) treeing and 3) molesting. For starters we can eliminate molesting for obvious reasons. The same is true for “running” because we have not heard or seen him involved in such. Finally, we can also eliminate “treeing” because raring up and smelling is not considered “treeing” by any standards of treeing. Therefore, no harm no foul. Dog D is the only dog left in this cast and completes the remainder of the hunt by his lonesome. That’s a unique scenario that doesn’t happen very often and a good topic for this column

Posted by JiM on 08-24-2015 05:32 AM:

I think you are probably right. I can't see a difference in terms of being treated as treeing or not.

Posted by H. L. Meyer on 08-24-2015 12:25 PM:

Nope

I do not agree with B Thompson. Now lets kee in on two other words. Nite Champion, possum. Neither of these words were use in first post. so neither apply to this situation. First post is no where close to a scratch.
I do agree with JiM 4-K, Just my opinion.

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Posted by RLenhart on 08-24-2015 01:06 PM:

After getting ALL the facts in that situation I would say If my dog had been there I would certainly be telling everybody about my tough luck in that hunt but would have to write it off as "that's just the crazy kind of stuff that can happen in a hunt and makes it all fun". I've seen the rule book nip me in the butt when I knew my dog didn't really do anything wrong in my eyes but iv'e also walked away grinning because I came out ahead just because of a silly twist of rules/fate LOL. Bottom line "you win some you loose some" you just have to move on and hope your luck is a little better on the next drop.

Posted by brujan182 on 08-24-2015 03:51 PM:

4-k plainly says treeing but not declared treed. Don't see how it could apply. She was not treeing. Every one there agreed she was not treeing.

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Bruce Janssen 765-427-2350
You'll always have, what you're willing to put up with.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-24-2015 03:56 PM:

I don't understand how you could assign tree points and then minus them to a dog that everyone agreed was not treeing? I mean if she had been treed in would they not have minused her tree points for not treeing? So how could they assign her tree points for not treeing but "being at the tree" and then minus them?

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