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Posted by deschmidt27 on 02-12-2013 03:17 AM:

C.O.O.N.

I've brought it up on this forum before, but can anyone tell me the difference between B.A.S.S. tournaments and our competition events? I'm thinking the fisherman and coon hunter are cut from the same cloth, right? In fact many of them are one in the same.

So how is it they are looked at so differently???

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Posted by brittanernst on 02-12-2013 05:07 AM:

didnt know they even compared. To me coon hunting is much more entertaining. All the BASS tournaments have the same thing going on about the only thing that changes is the baits and the location. Think about it the boats are all the same the bass are usually around the same size or at least a couple pounds apart.

As opposed to coon hunting where you never know what will happen. Dog fight, coon gets caught on the ground, den tree, deer running dogs. It keeps us on our toes.

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Posted by Cynthia on 02-12-2013 01:16 PM:

not to mention the millions of dollars you can win with BASS tourneys

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 02-12-2013 02:17 PM:

I don't disagree, with your assessment of entertainment value, but of course I'm not a bass fisherman! I think Cynthia, hit the nail on the head... the most obvious difference is the television coverage, the big name sponsors and the and the amount of $$$ being given to the winners. Of course those all feed one another. The television coverage provides the sponsors the advertising, marketing and public appeal they're looking for and in return, the competitors and promoters reap the benefit of those large sponsorship dollars.

Our sport has sponsors too of course, but the magnitude of the investment pales in comparison. Of course there's a big difference in giving a dog box away in front of 100's of on-lookers, versus a pick-up and bass boat in front of millions of television viewers! They get what they pay for, and so do we, but that's all.

The question I have, is why??? Why couldn't the competition hunts have the same coverage, and therefore their winners, achieve the same notoriety?

I'm not talking about springing a camera crew on the final four of some major event. I'm talking about a series of events that are to be covered, and if you enter in them, you'll be filmed. This is no different than B.A.S.S. which has local and regional events, as well as the larger national events. Participation in the local and regional events is boosted, by the opportunity to qualify for a national event, end up on television and potentially walk away with that large purse.

And I’m not talking about wholly commercializing our sport, and destroying it. But if local events are bolstered by larger participation, they benefit and so do all the initiatives they want to achieve outside those events. They can do more conservation for the sport, and put more youngsters in the woods, because they benefited from the funding of competition events. Moreover, they don’t die because of lack of participation or interest. The registries benefit by the larger participation and the greater sponsorship of the national events. And perhaps the watchful eye of millions of viewers will shed some light on what some perceive as the potential problems in the events. Everyone will bring their “A Game” if there are cameras looking on.

So why can't this be done? What are the roadblocks to a means of supporting and promoting those involved???

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Posted by patches9452 on 02-12-2013 02:33 PM:

look what it done to deer hunting.... made 90% of land off limits to coon hunters.... commercializing it will do the same for the coon hunter... make it an even richer mans sport

Posted by Cynthia on 02-12-2013 03:15 PM:

one thing too is the John Q Public and their impressions of the activities...and the fact of hurting the cute little raccoon and putting those poor dogs in that box like that.

ppl can see you catching a fish and winning and then the fish are either let go if still alive or eaten or given to shelters, something and for the most part are ok with it.

there is the appearance of some type of cruelty, for some ppl, chasing that raccoon until it cant run any more and the slaughtered or ripped apart, etc etc.

I think before the audience is there to support it, there needs to be a bigger and better PR campaign to show coon hunting in a better light...since it is done at night.

deer is daytime. hogs are anytime, but are a nuisance and not cute. coon is at night...but they are so cute...nevermind the fact that they could be carriers of rabies and such and can be a menace.

lots of work still needs to be done..imo

Posted by brittanernst on 02-12-2013 04:00 PM:

yeah but how do we spread the good word without the help of television?

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Posted by on 02-12-2013 04:06 PM:

Isn't hunting looked at differently than fishing?

Right now there is a coonhunt going on that will pay $40,000 to the winner at the end of the week. Most people don't even know its happening.

Coonhunting is offering more than it ever has but you just don't get a festival type event. The hunters show up hunt take home the money.

I was in PAVO, GA just a few weeks ago and they had a two night hunt that paid out a split of $1,000 and it gave away a truck and several other nice prizes. Entry fee was like $220 for both nights.

Another new truck was given away just a week ago in MS and another one real soon. Maybe this week, I can't keep up.

Think coonhunting is doing pretty good if you want to get in the woods and hunt 6 nights a week and train a hound.

I here you want millions but right now the Coonhunters themselves are not probably away of the thousands that are given away every month. If the coonhunters themselves are not aware of whats going on and really don't support it, you can expect sponsors to throw money at coonhunting.

I have said this before and I will say it again. It has to start at the local level. And Coonhunters have to work together which you guys know more than me is tuff.

About every town in American has a County Fair once a year.
Get your coon club to rent a space. Get a donation of magazines from the cooner and bloodlines and fancy up the booth and tell everyone about coonhunting. Take a couple cute puppies and let them see where it starts.

Posted by brittanernst on 02-12-2013 04:21 PM:

Thats a good idea Bruce. We have the biggest ag fair in the state and it would reach alot of people. The game commission has a booth set up there and Im sure they wouldnt mind being set up by a coon hunter

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Posted by michael.magorian on 02-12-2013 04:23 PM:

With a big time sponsor like Garmin, you might see a little more publicity for the sport. I'm sure Garmin won't want to sit by idly for too long before they start pushing more media coverage. Which is both good and bad. There really isn't a good reason why the World Hunt, Autumn Oaks, the Winter Classic, or the breed specific hunts aren't covered by anything more than the local news. The demand for dogs and products will go up, so you will have more culls switching hands and more good companies selling China made products.

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 02-12-2013 05:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by patches9452
look what it done to deer hunting.... made 90% of land off limits to coon hunters.... commercializing it will do the same for the coon hunter... make it an even richer mans sport

Patches, I couldn't possibly disagree more. Read my post on "portraying our sport", and you'll see why we are losing ground. Or better yet, read half the posts on this forum, where we call one another liars, cheaters and basically the lowest form of life, and then decide why others may not trust or want us on their land. Deer hunters have become more educated and protective of their sport, perhaps irrationally, but collectively they'll protect what we're willing to blame others for taking away. If deer hunters acquired land to hunt (and I firmly beleive it's a minority paying for it), then we can too. Knock on more doors, be more polite, get their earlier than the deer hunter, be more respectful when you meet people. I live in the heart of deer hunting country, I just moved here last Summer, and I have plenty of places to run my dogs. It's true I got turned away, a lot, but I managed to find plenty of places.

Bruce is absolutely correct in that there is already much more going on out there, than the average coon hunter is even aware of. So how could we possibly expect to increase support and participation, if we don't increase exposure and awareness.

I beleive awareness and education is the only hope for our sport, and the only way to acheive that is through sponsorship support. All too many people think television pays for all of this... it doesn't! A producer has to pay to produce their show, they have to pay the network to air their show, they have to pay to drive around and film their show. Who do we think is supposed to pay for all of that???

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 02-12-2013 05:37 PM:

brittanernst - exactly!

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-13-2013 02:20 AM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey
Isn't hunting looked at differently than fishing?

Right now there is a coonhunt going on that will pay $40,000 to the winner at the end of the week. Most people don't even know its happening.

Coonhunting is offering more than it ever has but you just don't get a festival type event. The hunters show up hunt take home the money.

I was in PAVO, GA just a few weeks ago and they had a two night hunt that paid out a split of $1,000 and it gave away a truck and several other nice prizes. Entry fee was like $220 for both nights.

Another new truck was given away just a week ago in MS and another one real soon. Maybe this week, I can't keep up.

Think coonhunting is doing pretty good if you want to get in the woods and hunt 6 nights a week and train a hound.

I here you want millions but right now the Coonhunters themselves are not probably away of the thousands that are given away every month. If the coonhunters themselves are not aware of whats going on and really don't support it, you can expect sponsors to throw money at coonhunting.

I have said this before and I will say it again. It has to start at the local level. And Coonhunters have to work together which you guys know more than me is tuff.

About every town in American has a County Fair once a year.
Get your coon club to rent a space. Get a donation of magazines from the cooner and bloodlines and fancy up the booth and tell everyone about coonhunting. Take a couple cute puppies and let them see where it starts.

Bruce,

Let me ask you a question about the "high stakes" hunts that you have mentioned.

Where did the prizes or purse come from? Was it supplied to the organization that was hosting the event? Was it supplied to that organization by a sponsor? Were the prizes and or purse purchased with entry fees?

To me, that is the biggest difference in the today world of competition hunting, and the professional bass fishing circuit. As it stands, we pay an entry fee to enter in a regional or national level event. The prizes are a sub-set of the entry fees.

On the BASS circuit, sponsorship provides a vast majority of the prizes (boats, cash, etc) and in return, they get branding and advertisement. After all, Ranger boats are nice, but they don't really help you catch more fish...but when the "big boys" start fishing in Ranger boats, and winning big, the next thing you know, the lakes are full of Ranger boats!!!!!!

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Posted by patches9452 on 02-13-2013 02:38 AM:

that may be the case in some places but not here.... you cannot hunt deer lease land around here and thewre is not enough coon hunters around to be able to rent it from under them.... they pay thousands for hunting rights to places and dont want a dog anywhere near it

Posted by deschmidt27 on 02-13-2013 02:49 AM:

I recently moved to Central Wisconsin, where virtually everyone is a deer hunter, and there are a lot of acres leased by deer hunters. And yes, those that pay for hunting rights to a property, don't want anyone else on it. Not coonhunters, not other deer hunters, not anyone! But, there are a lot of acres out there, and deer hunters haven't leased it all. There is also state ground to hunt.

But the point is this... those commercial sponsors didn't lease that land! They simply sponsored shows and events that made deer hunting more popular than ever. So what you're really saying is that you're angry that deer hunting is more popular than coon hunting.

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Posted by joey on 02-13-2013 03:03 AM:

It’s real simple, money. The B.A.S.S sponsors pay for most everything. The TV coverage, the advertisement the prizes, all of it. The only reason they do that is for advertisement. There are two reasons for advertisement, to get your name out there and compete with your competitors. Garmin is the only one of our vendors that can sink that kind of money in anything. The question they are going to ask is why? They really don’t have a serious competitor and everyone in the sport that would use one already knows about them. So why would they?

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Posted by joey on 02-13-2013 03:08 AM:

I'm watching a fishing show right now and guess who just had a advertisment. Garmin!

Posted by VaBirdDog on 02-13-2013 03:14 AM:

It doesnt help that a good majority of people that know absolutely nothing about coon hunting view coon hunters as nothing but a bunch of law breaking, trespassing, poaching rogues and think that all of the dogs are abused and starved. Most also think that everytime a dog is turned loose a poor little cute raccoon is torn to shreds by a pack of those starved and abused hounds and then the dogs are just left out there abandoned. Some of the stuff I've heard from people is just absolutely crazy! It's all bs I know but when they get their little flier from the humane society or see one of those commercials on tv that has the backing of big money and big name movie stars its hard to change their minds. It doesnt help that there has been plenty of things done over the years that have done nothing but add fuel to their fire. One bad apple ruins it for everyone. .... I think it would be hard to ever get coon hunting to go mainstream and not real sure that I would want it to.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 02-13-2013 03:28 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by VaBirdDog
It doesnt help that a good majority of people that know absolutely nothing about coon hunting view coon hunters as nothing but a bunch of law breaking, trespassing, poaching rogues and think that all of the dogs are abused and starved. Most also think that everytime a dog is turned loose a poor little cute raccoon is torn to shreds by a pack of those starved and abused hounds and then the dogs are just left out there abandoned. Some of the stuff I've heard from people is just absolutely crazy! It's all bs I know but when they get their little flier from the humane society or see one of those commercials on tv that has the backing of big money and big name movie stars its hard to change their minds. It doesnt help that there has been plenty of things done over the years that have done nothing but add fuel to their fire. One bad apple ruins it for everyone. .... I think it would be hard to ever get coon hunting to go mainstream and not real sure that I would want it to.

Going by everything that you have said, our sport NEEDS to be put into a positive light, and we NEED to educate the general hunting public.

Every year a big name deer hunter is caught poaching....and you know what it doesn't change the fact that deer hunting is growing by leaps and bounds. I get really confused by our own willingness to point out all of the bad things in our own sport.

Anybody have any idea how much money is raised each year for children's hospitals, or local charities? Ever get curious about how much money is raised to help those in our own ranks that fall on hard times? I know that I helped organize a fundraiser for a fellow hunter locally a few months ago...and we put a whole bunch of money in his pocket in by donating a few hours of our time, and a little bit of effort...the coon hunting community came together and supported one of our own....that gets swept under the rug, and we immediately want to point out that there are those among us that may not take care of their hounds like they should...shame on us!

In reality, the biggest difference is that an organization (B.A.S.S.) took an interest in promoting the sport. Not just putting on events, not just collecting this fee or that fee from the sportsmen and women...but took an interest in furthering the "science" of fishing for a specific specie of fish. They took it from a Sunday afternoon past time, to a "major league" sport. They worked to partner with sponsors to raise awareness, and to enhance the image of all of those guys throwing plastic worms in the lake!

Today, as a group, we just don't have that kind of interest from the registries, and from the sponsors of the registries, to even start to be seen as anything but banjo picking, trespassers.

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Posted by patches9452 on 02-13-2013 04:10 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
I recently moved to Central Wisconsin, where virtually everyone is a deer hunter, and there are a lot of acres leased by deer hunters. And yes, those that pay for hunting rights to a property, don't want anyone else on it. Not coonhunters, not other deer hunters, not anyone! But, there are a lot of acres out there, and deer hunters haven't leased it all. There is also state ground to hunt.

But the point is this... those commercial sponsors didn't lease that land! They simply sponsored shows and events that made deer hunting more popular than ever. So what you're really saying is that you're angry that deer hunting is more popular than coon hunting.

no sir... what im saying is there are 200 deer hunters to every one coon hunter in my area.... leaseing land is impossible for the coon hunter in my area.... public land can only be hunted during kill season here... within 50 miles of my house i dont know of any timberland over 20 acres not leased by hunters unless its in a family run club and they dont want us there either.... i just dont see anyway as a coon hunter i can afford to buy into a club at 100,000 plus and then 8 to 10.000 a year after that just to coon hunt... i hunt public land when its open and then have 2 spots i hunt all spring and summer that totlal less than 300 acres

Posted by VaBirdDog on 02-13-2013 04:13 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Going by everything that you have said, ourit'ort NEEDS to be put into a positive light, and we NEED to educate the general hunting public.

Every year a big name deer hunter is caught poaching....and you know what it doesn't change the fact that deer hunting is growing by leaps and bounds. I get really confused by our own willingness to point out all of the bad things in our own sport.

Anybody have any idea how much money is raised each year for children's hospitals, or local charities? Ever get curious about how much money is raised to help those in our own ranks that fall on hard timm known that I helped organize a fundraiser for a fellow hunter locally a few months ago...and we put a whole bunch of money in his in by donation a. urs of our time, and a little bit of effort...the coon hunting community came together and supported one.f our own....that gets swept under the rug, and we immediately want to point out that there are those among us that may not take care of their hounds like they should...shame on us!

In reality, the biggest difference is that an organization (B.A.S.S.) took an interest in promoting the sport. Not just putting on events, not just collecting this fee or that fee from the sportsmen and women...but took an interest in furthering the "science" of fishing for a specific specie of fish. They took it from a Sunday afternoon past time, to a "major league" sport. They worked to partner with sponsors to raise awareness, and to enhance the image of all of those guys throwing plastic worms in the lake!

Today, as a group, we just don't have that kind of interest from the registries, and from the sponsors of the registries, to even start to be seen as anything but banjo picking, trespassers.

I wasnt saying thats my point of view or that's what I point out to non hunting people but sadly it does exist! Me or anyone else pointing out that fact didnt cause it and by not saying anything it doesnt just disappear! The dogs don't even have to be starved or abused, Most of them see a hound that is in absolute ideal body condition and to them it is starved and underweight. without even mentioning body condition you have the people out there claiming that its cruel for us to "force" our dogs to chase around innocent little animals. They think all dogs should look like their foo foo fat ass shitzu thats looks like a barrel on toothpicks. Not to mention that there are towns that have now even made it illegal to keep a dog on a chain since they have deemed it inhumane. How can you possibly explain anything that we do to someone with that kind of mentality? The original post is asking why cant coon hunting be more like BASS and part of that is the stigma attached would make for a hard sell to the general public. But its there and it is a simple fact that it is how we are veiwed by a good portion of the general public. They dont want to look at us or hunting as a whole any differently because they simply just dont want us doing it - period. Any thing they can use to help their fight they will and one bad apple will make the headlines when all of the good is just swept under the rug. They dont want hunting and dont want to learn anything about it they want a stop put to it. Running hounds takes land and that is something that is simply shrinking everywhere. As people move In and close their land then see a light out back as someone catches a dog its another pissed off land owner that just doesnt understand. The hounds are going to run my horses, the hunter spin up my field or cost me a lawsuit, blah blah blah. they wouldnt have these fears if it had never happened at some point. The coons arent ruining their cars in accidents or eating their expensive shrubs. It's going to be hard to gain interest when you cant even get the support of most state's dgif or dnr or even other hunters. They are focused on the large game numbers and hunters because those numbers are growing while the numbers of small game hunters are constantly shrinking each and every year. Interest is simply dwindling and thats all there is to it. Why is everyone always complaining about the clubs closing up and entries being down? We are hardly supporting ourselves.

Posted by sidneyjames on 02-13-2013 04:56 AM:

why dont the deer hunters let yall hunt.even after deer seaso?they sure let ya in south alabama.lot of em will go with me to make sure the coon dies.sounds like yall got it ruff up there.i got 3 public lands one with in 30 mins.concuh national forrest 22.000 acres.the you have blue springs management area thats 10.000 are better cost ya 16 dollars a year.just in season.the upper delta anouther 10.000 acres just kill season.perdido management area just during kill season.and all these turkey hunters want you to kill all the coons you can on there clubs till turkey season then you better stay home lol.i guess we are really lucky down here.hey i sure like to be on that tv show lmao

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Posted by VaBirdDog on 02-13-2013 05:17 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by sidneyjames
why dont the deer hunters let yall hunt.even after deer seaso?they sure let ya in south alabama.lot of em will go with me to make sure the coon dies.sounds like yall got it ruff up there.i got 3 public lands one with in 30 mins.concuh national forrest 22.000 acres.the you have blue springs management area thats 10.000 are better cost ya 16 dollars a year.just in season.the upper delta anouther 10.000 acres just kill season.perdido management area just during kill season.and all these turkey hunters want you to kill all the coons you can on there clubs till turkey season then you better stay home lol.i guess we are really lucky down here.hey i sure like to be on that tv show lmao

Lot of the leases around here are worded to only be open to the hunters during specific times and seasons. So it kind of cuts you out if you are hunting anything other than big game. Virginia has hardly any public land compared to other states open to hunters other than the national forest and that's mostly in the western part of the state. And even though we have a continous chase season the national forest is closed to it for a good portion of the year. I dont remember the exact dates cause its too far for me to drive anyway. If I hadnt come from a farming family I wouldnt hardly have anything left to hunt around my area but we even lease the hunting rights to deer and Turkey hunters and just reserve my own permission in the contract and agreement. otherwise they would run me off! Lol one group even wanted to try to tell us not to run cattle on our own farm that is and has been a beef cattle operation for ever! They didnt last long! Lol I Cant afford not to with what they are willing to pay. ....

Posted by deschmidt27 on 02-13-2013 02:40 PM:

I guess I really don't get some of the points, being expressed???

Is hunting land hard to come by, compared to years past? Yes, many rights and privileges are harder to come by these days! Some is due to those securing their rights and privileges, by leasing land, some by out-right buying it. Some of it is due to people afraid of a lawsuit, from a hunter that is injured on their land. Some is due to people just being greedy and not open to sharing their property. But none of this has anything to do with the better promotion other sportsman are doing for their sport!

The TV shows and advertisers aren't leasing this land, the hunters are. And if coon hunters on average can't afford as much, or willing to pay, what deer hunters are, is that really the sponsors or deer hunters fault??? Are we going to join the president, and pit the haves against the have nots?

Fisherman, Deer and Turkey hunters have done a better job of promoting their sport, and tapping into commercial sponsors, to do so. That has made their sport more popular, and perhaps more "mainstream" than ours. In return, those sportsmen are organizing to protect their sport. Groups of men, women and conservation groups are leasing and buying land to ensure their future is protected. They are pursuing legislation that protects it, and fighting against that which threatens it. They are coming together, and addressing this head-on, in public!

We on the other hand, are finding reasons to blame other sportsmen for our issues, are calling one another names, and asking that our sport be kept secretive! That is all a recipe for failure.

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Posted by patches9452 on 02-13-2013 02:49 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deschmidt27
I guess I really don't get some of the points, being expressed???

Is hunting land hard to come by, compared to years past? Yes, many rights and privileges are harder to come by these days! Some is due to those securing their rights and privileges, by leasing land, some by out-right buying it. Some of it is due to people afraid of a lawsuit, from a hunter that is injured on their land. Some is due to people just being greedy and not open to sharing their property. But none of this has anything to do with the better promotion other sportsman are doing for their sport!

The TV shows and advertisers aren't leasing this land, the hunters are. And if coon hunters on average can't afford as much, or willing to pay, what deer hunters are, is that really the sponsors or deer hunters fault??? Are we going to join the president, and pit the haves against the have nots?

Fisherman, Deer and Turkey hunters have done a better job of promoting their sport, and tapping into commercial sponsors, to do so. That has made their sport more popular, and perhaps more "mainstream" than ours. In return, those sportsmen are organizing to protect their sport. Groups of men, women and conservation groups are leasing and buying land to ensure their future is protected. They are pursuing legislation that protects it, and fighting against that which threatens it. They are coming together, and addressing this head-on, in public!

We on the other hand, are finding reasons to blame other sportsmen for our issues, are calling one another names, and asking that our sport be kept secretive! That is all a recipe for failure.

simple... 1000 acres cost 10,000 a year to lease.... 10 deer hunters can lease it and all hunt at the same time..... 10 coon hunters lease the same land and you have a mess and not near enough land for 10 people to be able to hunt every night.... it takes lots of land to hunt a dog on.... most 1000 acre spots around her has 20 to 25 members to split the cost... can you imagine the headache of trying to coon hunt that land with that many people involved

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