UKC Forums - To get a "Purebred" dog by inbreeding??

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-- To get a "Purebred" dog by inbreeding?? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=3006)

Posted by Christy on 08-25-2003 06:24 PM:

To get a "Purebred" dog by inbreeding??

My dad and I got into a HUGE fight last night. See, he hunts AKC registered Beagles, and a friend of his is wanting to breed his dog to my dads female. Well, come to find out the dogs are full littermates. EW!

My dad tells me that in order to get a TRUE PUREBRED dog you have to have them bred like this. But, you can only do it one time. Any more than once is considered "inbreeding". Also that at least 90% of "purebred" dogs are bred like this. I think that he's full of MUD!!

We fought for 30 minutes about this. I told him if I knew he was breeding dogs like that years ago, I'd sure feel different about it now, and I'm sure glad that UKC don't let you do it.

What are your intakes on his comment? Do you think he's right, or wrong?

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Posted by PWC on 08-25-2003 06:36 PM:

Well...

Well... you are wrong about some things...
UKC doesn't keep you from breeding littermates. All they do is put the word "inbred" on the papers next to the sex of the animal. Nothing to say "EW!" about. Inbreeding and linebreeding have been a part of all types of animal husbandry for eons probably.
Inbreeding and linebreeding have their proponents and their detractors, they are just two more tools that breeders can choose to use or choose not to use.

Your dad is wrong about some things... Dogs do not have to be "inbred" to be "purebred". Also, anytime you make a brother x sister, father x daughter, mother x son cross they are considered "inbred" no matter how many times the cross is made or how many times similar crosses appear in the pedigree.

I also doubt 90% of all purebred dogs have crosses that close together, but he is right in a sense that all purebred dogs within a breed are probably related and share a lot of common ancestors.

So all-in-all I think both of you were more wrong than right.

Posted by Christy on 08-25-2003 08:17 PM:

PWC

I guess I misunderstood. I thought that inbreeding wasn't allowed. Oh well. Our dog is about as tight linebred as you can get without inbreeding.

Posted by willscrk on 08-25-2003 08:20 PM:

fellow i know has beagles that are inbred and then inbred some more. fatherxdaughter take female out of it and breed it right back to the dad again then breed those littermates.he has idiots pop up but a very consistant beagle line he has. he has learned to pick out those bad traits very quickly so few of them get past him.he culls HARD but is having to do less of it every year.he is equally adept at identifying the traits he desires. you might not like the style beagle he has at the end of his lead, but if you do he can sell you one that is like it. i think you will find that the purebreds mostly came from family breeding then inbreeding the most perfect. BEING ABLE TO ACCURATELY IDENTIFY TRAITS IS KEY. if i hadnt made the cross before i would not feel comfortable selling them to anyone as puppies. i would want to watch as many as i could develope. then sell the good ones if there where any. side note: this fellow has friends who share the same idea of a good dog. when they make a 1st time cross they pass them out among them for evaluation.

Posted by josh on 08-25-2003 08:21 PM:

......Linebreeding and inbreeding are the same, by definition......Linebreeding is just a nicer name for it.

Posted by willscrk on 08-25-2003 08:51 PM:

depins on wut diksunary u use ukc 's definition suits me. or maybe we should say family or immediate family bred. lol

Posted by Lynn Wilson on 08-25-2003 08:57 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
......Linebreeding and inbreeding are the same, by definition......Linebreeding is just a nicer name for it.

Incorrect, Josh. Linebreeding is crossing close relatives, aunt/nephew etc. INbreeding is crossing "first line" relations, such as mother/son, father daughter, brother/sister etc.

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Posted by pete on 08-25-2003 11:34 PM:

Demystifying Inbreeding Coefficients

John Armstrong

While most breeders recognize that a mating between half-sibs or cousins represents inbreeding, the majority probably have no idea which represents the closer inbreeding. This is not helped by the non-standard definition of inbreeding in some books (e.g. Onstott's "Breeding Better Dogs").

thats an article at net pets

lynn im not sure josh is wrong... ukc has their definition of inbreeding... its not the only one anyways i look at inbreeding and line breeding as a tool. not good or bad or nice or not nice . just a tool. pete

Posted by Jay Westbrook on 08-26-2003 02:20 AM:

Guy Ormiston covers definitions of both of these terms in his book "New Guide to Breeding Old Fashioned Working Dogs". According to him, the best way to "fix" certain traits in dogs is to inbreed and linebreed. Inbreeding is breeding immediate family members, mother/son, father/daughter, etc. Line breeding would be where a pup would have same grandparent or greatgrandparent on top and bottom. Mr. Ormiston really covers the subject of breeding very well in his book, I recommend it to anyone breeding dogs. After you read it, you will see how many "breeders" are playing pot luck stew in breeding their dogs.

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