UKC Forums - Top 100 Judges

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Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 01:20 PM:

Top 100 Judges

I absolutely hate to complain about anything, but this was horrible. You should not have to explain rules to your non-hunting judge at the world hunt finals. What kind of effort was really made to find competent judges?

I saw the poorest tree scoring decisions that absolutely cost the deserving dog an honest win. There was very little effort made to score trees correctly. This was a joke. A dog that never treed a coon and treed a slick tree (that was circled) advanced to the top 20, and another dog that treed the only coon in the cast and did not make a single mistake went home.

Surely UKC could find 25 competent judges for the most important hunt of the year??

I am nauseated just thinking about how this cast went.

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Posted by MIKE CARDER on 09-22-2017 01:52 PM:

Sounds to me

That this was a single cast and not all 25. Maybe there was an issue with that cast, I wasn't there. But maybe you should take your problem to Allen or send it in to Dear Abbey.

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Posted by rob thompson on 09-22-2017 02:01 PM:

You were not there mike so shut up it was horrible!

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-22-2017 02:34 PM:

Maybe people that could judge don't want to put up with the whining, complaining, argueing handlers that try to twist the rules to fit themselves. I can't believe that they got anybody to judge those casts. It is a a thankless job.

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 02:47 PM:

I am extremely easy to get a long with and the cast went fine. There was no panel and the master of hounds would simply have to take the non-hunting judge's call in almost all cases, so there was no point in pushing the issues in the woods. I questioned the judge once, and that was that.

I simply expect the judge to know the $@!$ rules at a world hunt. Jesus Christ.

I would gladly have judged if there would have been hunting judges.

And I have spoken with 3 or 4 different casts that had clueless non-hunting judges.

Oh, and I did go to talk to them last night, but they were busy trying to fix another completely jacked up scoring by another judge, so I went home. But thanks for the input, *******.

Posted by Rancher77 on 09-22-2017 03:16 PM:

Its Goergia..neff said. Ukc should be embarassed. People spend good money to hunt... Whole thing is a joke.
Btw if Goergia has such great coonhounds why arent there more in finals??? Gezzzzz

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 03:33 PM:

I'm not bashing Georgia or the club. I had a great guide and we hunted good woods. I am just put out at the quality of judges that I witnessed and have heard from other casts. Certainly not world hunt standards.

As you can imagine, it's a little frustrating when your dog should have won the cast and nothing should've been remotely close..... after getting to this point, driving across country, taking off work, etc. I know there will always be gray areas and judges aren't perfect, but you **** well better at least know the rules if you are judging a world hunt cast.

Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-22-2017 03:41 PM:

John, didn't say you weren't. And not saying anything about the judging at World Hunt because I wasn't there. I am just saying that I bet it is extremely hard to get qualified judges because of what the judges have to go through. And you are asking a lot of someone if you expect them to know every interpretation of every rule. Just look at what happens when a question is asked on the interweb. All a judge can do is use his best judgement and if he makes a wrong interpretation about a rule then you have a MOH to overturn it.
Now as to slick versus circle trees, then everyone has their own opinion. You can argue about them all night. The "quality" of the judgeing has nothing to do with that. Some people minus "circle" trees and some people circle "minus" trees.

Posted by wjoey on 09-22-2017 03:52 PM:

Hey they did not plus opossums or off game down here . next year maybe you should leave your dog home and go be a competent judge .

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Posted by wjoey on 09-22-2017 03:54 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by rob thompson
You were not there mike so shut up it was horrible!

ROFLMAO someone finally got to you on here. I may have to start a somebody owes mike a apology thread

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 04:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
John, didn't say you weren't. And not saying anything about the judging at World Hunt because I wasn't there. I am just saying that I bet it is extremely hard to get qualified judges because of what the judges have to go through. And you are asking a lot of someone if you expect them to know every interpretation of every rule. Just look at what happens when a question is asked on the interweb. All a judge can do is use his best judgement and if he makes a wrong interpretation about a rule then you have a MOH to overturn it.
Now as to slick versus circle trees, then everyone has their own opinion. You can argue about them all night. The "quality" of the judgeing has nothing to do with that. Some people minus "circle" trees and some people circle "minus" trees.

This wasn't an interpretation issue. It was literally not knowing that a very pertinent rule existed.

Some slick trees can't be argued when you can see every single limb on a persimmon tree.

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 04:29 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Hey they did not plus opossums or off game down here . next year maybe you should leave your dog home and go be a competent judge .

Your attempt to be a smart ass doesn't make sense. I'm a paying customer and I expect (and should expect) the highest quality judging at this event.

And if I don't have a dog qualified I would be happy to go judge.

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 04:31 PM:

And I am in no way bashing the judge either, he probably did the best he knew how.

Posted by MIKE CARDER on 09-22-2017 04:32 PM:

Lol

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
ROFLMAO someone finally got to you on here. I may have to start a somebody owes mike a apology thread

No kidding, you know you just get tired of hearing the negative comments about things. I sorry if someone feels or actually got beat because of an incompetent judge. But when it happens you question it and if your right then you get the call overturned. If it don't then maybe you were wrong. But I wasn't there so I will be quiet🙊

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Posted by joey on 09-22-2017 04:47 PM:

This is the simple fact, there a very few good judges. A judge not only has to know the rules he has to know what a dog is doing, he has to be able to control a cast of grown men that are competing against one another and he has to not show any favoritism. He also has to not be afraid to make someone upset. There are only a few guys all over the country that can do all that right.

I have been to the finals 4 times. Two of those times I seen the worst judging I had every seen on the first round. In Indiana in 2002 we had to explain to the judge where to wright the scores on the card. He threaten to send me to the truck because I ask to see the card. In Tennessee I seen a dog move 200 yards down a fence row and the judge said he couldn't tell the dog had moved. Even the handler said the dog moved.

This is UKC most prestigious hunt. You will not find a club in the country that has 25 competent judges. Spend some money and bring in the best judges you can find for this one hunt.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 09-22-2017 04:55 PM:

Mr Walker, it looks like you lost by 25 points...tuff break.
It looks like Baby went back out and treed a coon by herself late and is still in it.

It is so easy for us interweb coonhunters to sit back and comment on what went on but you are actually asking for responses when you post on here. And interweb coonhunters being what they are most of those responses are going to be negative. It is no fun to agree with someone.

If you truly think something should be done "next year" why don't you come up with a solution or suggestion and contact the person in charge (AG) and offer it to him. I bet that you would get much better results.

Posted by ov_blues on 09-22-2017 05:04 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by joey
This is the simple fact, there a very few good judges. A judge not only has to know the rules he has to know what a dog is doing, he has to be able to control a cast of grown men that are competing against one another and he has to not show any favoritism. He also has to not be afraid to make someone upset. There are only a few guys all over the country that can do all that right.

I have been to the finals 4 times. Two of those times I seen the worst judging I had every seen on the first round. In Indiana in 2002 we had to explain to the judge where to wright the scores on the card. He threaten to send me to the truck because I ask to see the card. In Tennessee I seen a dog move 200 yards down a fence row and the judge said he couldn't tell the dog had moved. Even the handler said the dog moved.

This is UKC most prestigious hunt. You will not find a club in the country that has 25 competent judges. Spend some money and bring in the best judges you can find for this one hunt.

I agree 100%

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Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 05:06 PM:

I guess most of you just always think someone is wrong or complaining, or that you know what someone should have done without being there. In most cases you are probably right to be honest. But I assure you I did everything I could given the situation, I did it peacefully, but this should never happen.

Split trees that weren't touching got scored as one. They were shining straight through my tree, saw my coon, tried to say it was in the other tree. Then it was scored as one tree. The judge glanced up a few times and said they touched and they 100% did not. Master of hounds would have to go with the judges call. Simple as that. So I questioned the judge, and then let it be.

There were several other things as well.

Posted by joey on 09-22-2017 05:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SFWALKER
I guess most of you just always think someone is wrong or complaining, or that you know what someone should have done without being there. In most cases you are probably right to be honest. But I assure you I did everything I could given the situation, I did it peacefully, but this should never happen.

Split trees that weren't touching got scored as one. They were shining straight through my tree, saw my coon, tried to say it was in the other tree. Then it was scored as one tree. The judge glanced up a few times and said they touched and they 100% did not. Master of hounds would have to go with the judges call. Simple as that. So I questioned the judge, and then let it be.

There were several other things as well.

There isnt anything in the world you can do about that. Congratulations on making it as far as you did.

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 05:29 PM:

I know there is not, and that's why I didn't ruin the hunt at the time. All I'm saying is that UKC should do like other registries do and have the most qualified judges for this one hunt. I would be willing to pay extra for an entry fee just to pay highly qualified judges.

And thanks. I'm happy to get this far. I certainly don't mind losing straight up, but this one will be tough to think about for quite a while.

Posted by cripple creek on 09-22-2017 05:29 PM:

Before any one drops their other two cents on this topic

Who wasn't there....let me say this.
I've hunted with John's dad since 1977.
I was at Ed's house when he held John up from his crib at just a few days old and marvel at what a great son he had Produced. So I've known John his entire life literally.

You can take this to the bank...he is without a doubt, the most honest, straight as an arrow young man I know. He will minus his dog for any error he makes before a judge has to.
His dad is the same way. They are their own dogs worst critics. He also was toting the most dangerous coondog at the finals..bar non.

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Posted by Rancher77 on 09-22-2017 05:31 PM:

Its the World hunt...not a friday night get togther.. How the heck could UKC fail to find quality judges and hunting. Guys spend a ton of money to attend..take off work..only to attend ametuer hour.. Lots of pissed off hunters in Georgia this morning

Posted by SFWALKER on 09-22-2017 05:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Walker, it looks like you lost by 25 points...tuff break.
It looks like Baby went back out and treed a coon by herself late and is still in it.

It is so easy for us interweb coonhunters to sit back and comment on what went on but you are actually asking for responses when you post on here. And interweb coonhunters being what they are most of those responses are going to be negative. It is no fun to agree with someone.

If you truly think something should be done "next year" why don't you come up with a solution or suggestion and contact the person in charge (AG) and offer it to him. I bet that you would get much better results.

The solution is easy. Compensate the most experienced judges to judge the world hunt. Surely UKC can come up with 25 good judges for the right price.

Posted by cripple creek on 09-22-2017 05:37 PM:

Im not bashing any judge...I'm with some others that

Say at a world hunt surely there is a way to find judges that are extremely qualified even if you have to pay their way and rooms to Judge at a World Hunt. Way too much on the line for any a novice judge.
I also heard there were several complaints on the judging in several casts
Since I've never made it to the finals, this could be par for the course.
Hard to separate whiners from legit complaints over the computer.
But if my life ever laid in the hands of a man, John Walker and his dad are the hands I would lay it in.

Posted by elvis on 09-22-2017 05:48 PM:

I can look at who was in the cast and tell you what transpired there. I don't have to be there.

.been there.

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