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-- Night Hunt Question: (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=368505)

Posted by CWS on 08-06-2010 01:20 PM:

Night Hunt Question:

Okay here's the deal. Dog A is setting at 375+ Dog B 325+ and Dog C 250+

Dog(s) A B and C are casted with 13 minutes left to hunt. Dog A strikes for 100 followed by Dog C for 75 followed by Dog B for 50.

Dog C is treed for 125 followed by a split tree call by Dog B followed by a split tree call by Dog A.

Proceed to Dog C and Dog(s) A and C are split treed 20 yards appart. Handler of Dog B wants to wait to handle his dog until these two trees are scorred. Cast agrees to shine both trees at the same time since they are so close together. Find the coon in Dog A's tree so now nobody can beat dog A but handler of Dog B states that if the cast doesn't walk into his tree and score it they will be scratched.

Now the question is if handlers of Dog A and C refuse to walk to Dog B's tree because the tree is meaningless can they be scratched?

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Posted by coondogedog on 08-06-2010 01:45 PM:

The tree has to be scored.

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Posted by pigsit on 08-06-2010 01:47 PM:

I think it comes down to hunt time, rules state, you must hunt two hours. If dog was declared treed before hunt time expired, you must score his tree. Let's face it, if you present this story to a MH, and say we had three minutes left and didn't score the other tree, because Dog A couldn't be beat. He'll scratch the whole cast. Tom

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Posted by CWS on 08-06-2010 01:57 PM:

So if handler of Dog B wanted to throw a big fit even though there's no way he could win he could get handlers A and C scratched?

What rule would be used to back a scratch in this situation?

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Posted by troy on 08-06-2010 02:13 PM:

Rule 17 says.." Dogs declared treed within the hunting time are eligable to be scored"

page 49&50 of the ADVISOR says tree to be scored.... failer to score a tree or vote on the tree ( + - circel) is a srachable ofence

WE KNOW THAT EVEN WITH TIME BEING UP ON THE HUNT YOU STILL SCORE A TREE

you say that with finding dog A coon no one can beat him that is fine and well congradulation are said now to me I feel that SPORTMANSHIP would say go to the other dog and still give him the time he desreves and the credit he is entitled to

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Posted by pigsit on 08-06-2010 02:19 PM:

Rule #1 would work. Dogs must hunt entire hunt, unless scratched. #17 Dogs declared treed within hunting time are eligible for scoring. You've got to read all the words, not just the ones you like. Tom

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Posted by CWS on 08-06-2010 02:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by troy
Rule 17 says.." Dogs declared treed within the hunting time are eligable to be scored"

page 49&50 of the ADVISOR says tree to be scored.... failer to score a tree or vote on the tree ( + - circel) is a srachable ofence

WE KNOW THAT EVEN WITH TIME BEING UP ON THE HUNT YOU STILL SCORE A TREE

you say that with finding dog A coon no one can beat him that is fine and well congradulation are said now to me I feel that SPORTMANSHIP would say go to the other dog and still give him the time he desreves and the credit he is entitled to

See I disagree 100% here. SPORTSMANSHIP would be HANDLER OF DOG B REALIZING that he was beat and his dog just came up a little "short". Shaking everyones hand and saying I will see you at the truck. What on earth would make someone walk several hundred yards to score a dogs tree that is meaningless. Shoot in this situation go ahead walk in there and score the tree, I could care less if you come back saying the dog had a groundhog or 30 coon up the tree, the tree is pointless.

Fact of the matter is a "crook" can try to get someone scratched in this kind of situation as a "last hope" situation. I was just beta by a better dog but I'm guna make this fellar walk to my dog a half a mile away and in actuality "I hope he doesn't" so I can scratch him!

That sound about right?

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Posted by troy on 08-06-2010 03:01 PM:

Handler of Dog B could yes say good job let me get my dog meet ya at the truck.

rules say score the tree rule # 1 and rule 17

your oraginal question was can dog A & C be scrached the answer is yes.

the way I look at it In My Oppnion is show the dog the respect you hunted 2 hours with the cast/dog another couple of hunded yards to show the respect is not alot to ask

do I think it is a bad way of trying to get a win by forcing someone to go with no hope ...yes

Posted by Todd K / UKC on 08-06-2010 03:22 PM:

What if handler A in his excitement forgets to sign the scorecard but everyone else in the cast did sign it? Then what would happen? Are you sure that last tree that you don't want to score won't be a factor?

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Posted by josh on 08-06-2010 03:24 PM:

CWS, You have to give poeple the right to be stupid.

Your right, To you and me, its a moot point to score the tree...But if they want it scored whats it gonna hurt?

Posted by blueticker on 08-06-2010 03:27 PM:

We would have shined the tree that C had and scored it, headed to B's tree to score it and then scored A's tree. If trees are not touching they get seperate shine time. A dog will get scored in the order they are called treed. It would have been just fine if the handlers of A & B would have said withdraw my dog and gathered their hounds. That didn't happen and the dogs should have been scored by the cast.

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Posted by CWS on 08-06-2010 03:35 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by josh
CWS, You have to give poeple the right to be stupid.

Your right, To you and me, its a moot point to score the tree...But if they want it scored whats it gonna hurt?

Well I had to walk about 800 yards through a logged out mess and I came out with my arms all tore up for no reason at all.

Todd, just like any cast I have ever been on the cast meets at the trucks, makes sure the card is correct signs it and off to the club we go.

In all honesty you could see the fire in the fellas eyes, he hoped I wouldn't walk into that last tree so he could scratch me and get the cheap win. Luckaly I knew what was up.

My problem with it is this; There are many young hunters starting to hit the hunts and with them being young or new to the sport they, like we all did lack experience. This is one of those situations where a "veteran" handler can take huge advantage of someone that is new and doesn't know any better. I hate these kind of situations for the very reason I described.

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Posted by on 08-06-2010 03:36 PM:

I think Troy's answer is the last word. CWS, you ask a question, Troy answered it. That is the rule. Everything else is just side talk.

Posted by jculler8 on 08-06-2010 03:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticker
We would have shined the tree that C had and scored it, headed to B's tree to score it and then scored A's tree. If trees are not touching they get seperate shine time. A dog will get scored in the order they are called treed. It would have been just fine if the handlers of A & B would have said withdraw my dog and gathered their hounds. That didn't happen and the dogs should have been scored by the cast.

Actually... I was the handler of Dog C and had 300+ prior to this scoring.

I drove almost 4 hours to hunt that nite. There was NO WAY I could win and NO WAY Dog B could win AFTER A's coon was found.

You can kiss my rear if I'm going to score B's meaningless tree. In all actuality, after A's coon was found, I quit shining my tree and withdrew. B should have withdrew as well.

If I wanted to go out and walk through the woods AFTER the hunt to score a MEANINGLESS tree, I'm goin pleasure hunting!

Especially when I got another 3+ hr. drive back home...

I believe the true question here is about SPORTSMANSHIP and RESPECT.

Had B's tree been meaningful in the outcome of the hunt, I sure as heck would've been there...

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Posted by josh on 08-06-2010 03:43 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by CWS
Well I had to walk about 800 yards through a logged out mess and I came out with my arms all tore up for no reason at all.

Yea, thats coonhunting.

Did you go there to play tiddlywinks?

Posted by Fred Harroun on 08-06-2010 03:44 PM:

cws you need to get it out of your head that every week someone is out to cheat you.you have a problem.

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Posted by on 08-06-2010 03:46 PM:

Now the question is if handlers of Dog A and C refuse to walk to Dog B's tree because the tree is meaningless can they be scratched?

THAT was the question. He ask, it was answered.

Posted by josh on 08-06-2010 03:49 PM:

If I had a nickel for every time I saw a boneheaded handler stayed in a cast eating up strike points from the guys that actually have a chance....Its their perogative.

The only thing dumber, would be to argue otherwise.

Posted by on 08-06-2010 03:53 PM:

This post may have been made in the form of a question but it was obviously ment as nothing more than an opportunity to vent.
Hopefully, they both feel better now.

Posted by CWS on 08-06-2010 03:58 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fred Harroun
cws you need to get it out of your head that every week someone is out to cheat you.you have a problem.

Was I the problem in the cast?

Ask jculler who the "cheater" in the cast was he will tell you. Yes, I consider it cheating whan another dog does better but the less deserving handler looks for every possible way to take that win; To only recieve a watered down win.

I guess what i'm getting at is maybe this rule needs to be changed. When the hunt is over it's over! Plain and simple!

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Posted by on 08-06-2010 04:04 PM:

The hunt is over when the guy leading says it is over???? I don't think I care for that idea.

Posted by Fred Harroun on 08-06-2010 04:04 PM:

no i didnt say you was the problem in the cast i said you have a problem in that you think every week your gonna get cheated or you get on here and tell how you was cheated.

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 08-06-2010 04:07 PM:

Maybe the handler of Dog B was afraid of the dark and did not want to go to his tree by himself. Maybe he was afraid that he would get lost. I once had a handler do as you described and I did not realize until later that he simply did not want to have to go 800 yds out in to a strange woods by himself. Being a good sportsman , I went with him. As has been stated, everyone is not out to cheat you. Have you ever thought about seeking professional help?

Posted by troy on 08-06-2010 04:11 PM:

CSW....yes a verten handler could take advanatage of a youth or new handler in this situation very easly and it is sad.

UKC has been very good at promoting YEP and YOUTH events to help them along and to help teach the rules

" THANK YOU LORD FOR ALL YOU HAVE GAVE ME " ..... The Lord has given you a gift of knowlage and understanding the rules

now take that in witch he gave you and pass it on

Posted by CWS on 08-06-2010 04:25 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Fred Harroun
no i didnt say you was the problem in the cast i said you have a problem in that you think every week your gonna get cheated or you get on here and tell how you was cheated.

This was not even put on here for my reasons!!! This was put on here because the rule needs changed!!! When there is no way another dog can win a tree should not have to be scorred! The points should be deleted.

Yes, Richard will you please along with youre redbones give me the "professional help" I need.

He was the guide so I would hope he knew the woods! Maybe there is a reason he is barred for life in PKC.

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