UKC Forums - Master of hounds ?

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Posted by Joeytaylor32 on 03-05-2017 03:37 AM:

Master of hounds ?

What is the proper procedure when a scorecard is turned in without the last strike or tree points being plusses minused or circled?

Posted by wibeagle8813 on 03-05-2017 04:23 AM:

Scratched

The master of hounds should have read it to everyone in the checklist before the casts were even called.

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Posted by Bob Hennessey on 03-05-2017 04:29 AM:

Rule 6y If scorecard lacks initials and/or point values in strike and tree columns, dog(s) affected will be scratched,

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Posted by Richard Lambert on 03-05-2017 01:55 PM:

Scorecard only needs 2 things to be valid......
#1. Signature of cast winner
#2. + - or circle by every point value

Now how hard is that? I don't understand how someone could turn in a card without those 2 things. They put all kinds of things on the card such as county hunted or coon seen or time used but they don't put the 2 things that they have to have. It is not the MOH job to fill out your scorecaed. If you don't have those 2 simple things, he will throw it in the trash. And don't get mad at the MOH or your judge. You can only get mad at yourself.

Posted by Tom anderson on 03-05-2017 04:23 PM:

If I was the moh I would tell the guy try again next week can't take it

Posted by ssgied on 03-05-2017 06:12 PM:

I guess the guy with the next best +points will be your cast winner.

Posted by amblue on 03-05-2017 06:14 PM:

yes

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Posted by RatDog on 03-06-2017 01:23 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by ssgied
I guess the guy with the next best +points will be your cast winner.

Is this for sure or the whole card goes in the trash ?

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Posted by Joeytaylor32 on 03-06-2017 05:25 AM:

Rest of cast

What about those that were plussed correctly ate they scratched too??

Posted by yadkintar on 03-06-2017 12:22 PM:

Any of y'all ever make an honest mistake ? At the smaller hunts is it not the master of hounds job to teach people what they have done wrong : suggestion why don't y'all go back out and look at your card its smudged and I can't read it a young Hunter that's worked hard for two hours gets caught up in the excitement and makes a mistake don't discouredge get them teach them at a large hunt give them the ax they should know better there jmo. Some people are not beyond getting a cast scratched so they can win.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-06-2017 01:27 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by RatDog
Is this for sure or the whole card goes in the trash ?

Only the incorrect dog is scratched. You do not punish the handlers who signed saying their score was correct when in fact it is. In a case where the cast winner was scratched, the cast win would go to the next correctly filled out dog.

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Posted by Joeytaylor32 on 03-06-2017 01:34 PM:

Rest of cast

Guys I'm wondering what the rulebook answer is. So do you scratch the whole cast or just those who didn't properly have the correct dog scored.

Posted by yadkintar on 03-06-2017 01:44 PM:

Rock at a small hunt if that guy won the cast and the other 3 handlers agree I am going to give him the opportunity to fix it the first time and tell him the next time you get the ax you are going to get a lot of inexperienced hunters at these small hunts if you have 8 dogs your lucky you want to run them off you go ahead I will do my job I will teach them so when they go to a big hunt they will know how to do it right now you can hammer me but that's my opinion.

Ps:think about this a big percentage of the time that young guy carrying the card is also the guide taking them hunting in his own pickup you got to look at the big picture jmo.

Posted by Joeytaylor32 on 03-06-2017 02:20 PM:

Rest of cast

I need the rule book answer guys not the good Ole boy answer lol.

Posted by Charles Pullen on 03-06-2017 02:22 PM:

Re: Rest of cast

quote:
Originally posted by Joeytaylor32
Guys I'm wondering what the rulebook answer is. So do you scratch the whole cast or just those who didn't properly have the correct dog scored.

scratch only the one that didn't sign or the one that didn't have a completed score . Next highest score with signature and every score completed will win then . When I was MOH at a local club I had to do this to my best friend. Guess what we're still best friends.

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Posted by JiM on 03-06-2017 02:26 PM:

Re: Rest of cast

quote:
Originally posted by Joeytaylor32
I need the rule book answer guys not the good Ole boy answer lol.

Robert Rock Johnson is MOH at some of the biggest events. He gave you the correct answer above. If you arent willing to accept that, the rulebook can be found online. You it up for yourself.

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Posted by J I Allen on 03-06-2017 02:46 PM:

I think some of the rules can be confusing regarding scorecards. In the rule book in section 12 master of hounds. (a) Scoring changes can only be made by the MOH or panel. Then in section 13. Scorecards (a) Scorecards must be completed in the woods, and no changes can be made later except where a question arises and is noted in the woods, also in this section under (c) Any handler failing to sign the scorecard in the woods may have the opportunity to sign upon returning the scorecard to, and in view of, the MOH/HD. I'm probably wrong but if the scores are in the plus or minus columns on the right hand side of the scorecard and the final scores are correct according to those columns can the MOH or panel correct that under the rules listed in section 12 (a) as worded above?

Posted by yadkintar on 03-06-2017 02:47 PM:

I understand the rules front and back I can even quote them there is also a lot of common sense to be used I guess maybe on of the higher ups need to tell us if we find a mistake on any card to give them the ax or not I can find mistakes on many cards if I want to most major hunts have qualified judges even non hunting ones so rock has less to worry about some of these kids drive 100 miles to come to a small ukc hunt I hate to ax them but if that's the way ukc wants it I will do it.

Posted by Joeytaylor32 on 03-06-2017 03:25 PM:

Thanks

Thanks for the help very confusing stuff on the test.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-06-2017 03:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I understand the rules front and back I can even quote them there is also a lot of common sense to be used I guess maybe on of the higher ups need to tell us if we find a mistake on any card to give them the ax or not I can find mistakes on many cards if I want to most major hunts have qualified judges even non hunting ones so rock has less to worry about some of these kids drive 100 miles to come to a small ukc hunt I hate to ax them but if that's the way ukc wants it I will do it.

The only hunts I have ever had to "ax" someone at is the major hunts. At the local hunts I have done, it has always came back right. Knock on wood.

Posted by nitehunter2004 on 03-06-2017 04:05 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
Only the incorrect dog is scratched. You do not punish the handlers who signed saying their score was correct when in fact it is. In a case where the cast winner was scratched, the cast win would go to the next correctly filled out dog.

This happened at AO.
Last drop, The judge left off the plus mark on the cast winner, cast winner signed it, then the judge gos back in and brings it to the Master hound attention, dog is scratched and cast win went to the judge LOL.

Posted by jkidd1 on 03-06-2017 04:15 PM:

They way I read the scorecard, the MOH can correct math errors, and MOH/Panel can change the scoring on a question that arose in the woods that comes back and they've deemed it was scored incorrectly and needs changed.

A handler may sigh the card in view on the MOH after hunt, but as far as strike/tree columns not scored with a +,-, or delete, by the rules that handler/dog is scratched.

You've got to think on this one, some cards that come in without a handlers signature may not be because he just plain forgot, it could be because he questioned something and didn't agree to the score that was written on the card, therefore given him a chance to sigh the card later in front on the MOH if he he feels his question was resolved and scored correctly.

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Posted by J I Allen on 03-06-2017 05:09 PM:

If the scores are in the plus, minus and total columns on the right hand side of the score cards and the score matches those figures why not let the MOH/HD panel correct that. Common sense would tell you that when the scores are added and in the final total column and they match all the plus or minus to get at that point the score is correct regardless of whether the handler made sure they all had been marked correctly. That's the amazing thing about common sense, is how few people actually have it.

Posted by amblue on 03-06-2017 05:13 PM:

this was voted on in rules committee this last year-----it is part of moh/hunt director instructions before cast are called----do not know who is so strong for this rule but must inforce until it is changed

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 03-06-2017 06:48 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
This happened at AO.
Last drop, The judge left off the plus mark on the cast winner, cast winner signed it, then the judge gos back in and brings it to the Master hound attention, dog is scratched and cast win went to the judge LOL.

that judge is now on the barred list also. think about what you do before you do it. Was the cast win worth that?

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