UKC Forums - Need Some Input From The Bench Show Community

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 07-16-2013 04:07 PM:

Need Some Input From The Bench Show Community

Seems to be a lot of interest in the Top Ten standings throughout the year. Then we really do have good participation in the Top Ten Finals which are held at the Winter Classic with 6 or 7 or more of the Top Ten represented. But of those dogs that earned the right to advance to the UKC All-Breed Top Ten Finals, which is held in conjunction with Premier, not one coonhound showed up to represent their breed. So we have a problem that we have to fix. I'm looking for input on how to do that. We need coonhounds represented in the All-Breed Finals.

If we held the Top Ten run-off for the coonhound breeds at Premier instead of at the Winter Classic (like it's done for all other breeds) I'm guessing we would have a much smaller turn out for the breed competition but at least whoever wins it will be present and able to advance.

The only other option I can think of is to award Top Ten points at all-breed conformation shows only. That way the only people earning Top Ten points are the ones who are even interested in showing the all-breed type shows.

We still have the Purina Award for a race. Do we even need anything else? We could potentionally come up with an additional program and call it something other than Top Ten? What are your thoughts?

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Posted by LMBEDDINGFIELD on 07-16-2013 05:48 PM:

I have always enjoyed the Top 10 competition and have won the breed before at WC but unfortunately I have never been able to attend the premier.... I enjoy conformation shows but have never been able to make it to a UKC event yet ....

One it is a long haul from here to there lol and its middle of baseball season and we have just recently made a trip up that way for B&T Days...

I agree that we need to be represented in the Top 10 at the premier but I know for me it is a hard trip to get in and the time of year makes it impossible for me... not everyone can compete in the Purina events or the Purina Race this has always been able to include the local person who enjoys showing but maybe not be able to go to the big shows....

Not sure what the answer is but I think there should still be some kind of recognition for the hounds that earn the points....

Will be interested in seeing where this leads too...

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Posted by mike shannon on 07-16-2013 08:55 PM:

We were in it a few years ago went to WC enjoyed ourselves greatly. I think leave it the way it is. Some folks are just more comfortable around hounds and houndsmen and hunters than a little ankle biter. This is a coonhound event and should be kept at coonhound events. Maybe something for everyone who gets into the top 10. A lot of miles, money and training goes into this just like hunting your dog at the events. JMO

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Posted by BlackElK on 07-16-2013 10:14 PM:

I like the idea of going with holding the Top Ten at the premier like other breeds and creating a new coonhound only points race. Purina is difficult to run with the new format that only includes state events. It takes a very forgiving boss or a retired status. Making a new PTA race that equals the field and moving the top ten to the premier sounds like the best way to get Coonhounds involved at the premier...

Posted by Dale Young on 07-17-2013 04:38 AM:

The Premier is relatively close to me and we have gone to watch and enjoy everything that's going on a few times in the past . I tried the conformation shows a little and found I just didn't enjoy them like I always have the Bench shows . Because of this I don't enter the Top Ten at WC because if I won it would possibly spoil someone else's plans who really wanted to go and I had no such plans to compete at the finals . Always was disappointed at the WC Top Ten that just one more cut of the breed winners wasn't made to crown a ( Top Ten Overall COONHOUND Bench Champion ) . Let the breed winners continue on to the Premier Top Ten if they desire but I personally just spent 12 months worth of time & money earning top ten points in bench shows with no interest in conformation shows . I know many like them but from what I've seen few are actually ready to have a realistic chance of winning the Premier . Mine for sure have had no such training and to win big in any venue you have to spend time working toward what you want or you won't get there .

Again I find it odd that we earn TOP TEN points in BENCH SHOWS and then pick BREED WINNERS in a BENCH SHOW so we can compete in a CONFORMATION SHOW that many aren't prepared for .

Many show in the WC Top Ten because it's there and they're there and Qualified to show in it .
I'd keep the TOP TEN for bench dogs and finish it at the WC with a TOP TEN Overall Coonhound winner .
Many now show conformation so let them earn Top Ten conformation points at the conformation shows like all the others do for the Premier Top Ten .
Who knows maybe someone will win both .

Posted by Showman on 07-17-2013 10:10 AM:

top ten

very well said Dale.

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Posted by B Beland on 07-17-2013 12:28 PM:

I'm also in agreement with Dale. My girls have showed their dogs in the TOP TEN but only because we had traveled 12 hours to get to the WC and they would rather show their dogs than sit and watch the show.
Myself, I could just sit back, BS, relax and watch the show
We would love to attend the PREMIER sometime but have yet to do this.
I feel alot of people like to compete in the TOP TEN that can not attend all the state shows and run the PURINA RACE.
I've had alot of people at local events come up to me and say "did you see my dog is in the TOP TEN" after getting points at some of the events that they did not have to travel to far to aquire.
I think it would be nice to have the 7 TOP TEN breed winners show against each other and have an overall TOP TEN bench show champion.

Bruce

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Posted by EEEKennels on 07-17-2013 03:56 PM:

dale

well said dale i know you and i have talked about this and have agreed i would love to show at mor events and attend conformation shows but my schedule dont allow this i work second shift and work alot of sats

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Posted by shawnstovall on 07-17-2013 06:58 PM:

ok i have to say something the last show i attended at black and tans days it looked like i was at something the premier or some other reg. big show. with all the dogs being ran around the show ring with there heads up in the air. when did we change from walking the dog in a natural gait just wondering. i show some but don't get serious about it.

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Posted by pegjerben on 07-17-2013 07:12 PM:

I agree with what everybody has already posted. As a beginner, I remember how exciting it was just to see my dogs name in the back of the book for Top Ten

I think the bench show top ten and the conformation top ten should be separate things and totally agree with the idea of awarding an overall top ten at WC.

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Posted by Cynthia on 07-17-2013 07:20 PM:

well Todd, as we discussed with you in MI, the day the Top Ten finals are held is an issue with most coonhound ppl, it was on Thursday. that requires ppl that work to get off work on Wed to drive up, show on Thur, maybe enter the conf show on Fri/Sat/Sun or only one or 2 days and then drive back for work on Mon w/o having to miss too many days. Most ppl will take off for a weekend event, with the exception of AO and/or WC which are usually most ppl's vacation times. moving this to Friday may help some.

As Dale mentioned, most dogs are not trained nor equipped to show in conformation and those that are usually hit other, local UKC events for the conformation portions not the top ten run-off or either have crossed the bridge to AKC conformation.

Maybe reeling back and letting the top ten coonhound become a top ten overall coonhound winner as Dale suggested is the best option there is, maybe change the name of that program to something other than top ten and leave the conformation side top ten since there are so many on the all breed side already.

Allowing coonhounds to obtain top ten points may help on that side of the fence as well and may help with entries. you could still have your top ten runoff & finals at premier just allowing the coonhounds to get the points from conformation shows along with the bench points (under a newly named system) and have the Overall coonhound winner at WC would appease all participants and hopefully would help with entries as well. jmo

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 07-17-2013 08:07 PM:

OK....I also like the idea of two identical programs running parallel to each other.....one for bench shows and one for all-bred conformation shows. I would not be in favor of one program being called Bench Show Top Ten and one program being called Conformation Top Ten. Too confusing.

So because the actual "Top Ten" concept goes way beyond coonhounds only, I think "Top Ten" should remain on the all-breed conformation side. We need to think of a new name for the old top ten program. Same rules, same points structure, same everything. Except we will show breed winners to determine an overall at the Winter Classic.

Can't use Coonhound Of The Year..it's already taken.

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Posted by Ellie Mae on 07-17-2013 08:11 PM:

What Mr. Young said!!!!

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 07-17-2013 08:22 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ellie Mae
What Mr. Young said!!!!

Well then in honor of it being Dale's idea why don't we list 12 dogs each month and call it "Dale's Dirty Dozen".

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Posted by 8hawg on 07-17-2013 09:05 PM:

20?? TOP SHOW HOUND OF THE YEAR:

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Posted by Ky Show Girl on 07-17-2013 11:01 PM:

i dont understand if bella had 80 purina pts 3rd highest
over all last yr how does effect the top ten if she was 10?

Posted by Sandi on 07-17-2013 11:53 PM:

why not make premiere mandatory for top ten dogs? if in fact the 1st dog can not attend then you take the #2 dog and so on? Isnt this why you wan the top ten points anyway? A chance to show the all breed world what a remarkable coonhound is? Most of our hounds are "hidden" at the bench shows! Give them a chance to "strut their stuff"
With this said, I just asked and NEVER got a response to my question of does a hound get top 10 pts at the all breed shows? if so how does it work.... how many pts and is it awarded at breed, group or just for bos?

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Posted by Cynthia on 07-18-2013 12:06 AM:

Sandi, no, currently coonhounds do NOT get top ten points at conformation events. and why would you make it mandatory? if you want to go, the roads are open and its just an entry fee away (except for TT runoff/finals) to show up.

and that could be the issue here, targeting the wrong audience. need to target the hounds that are already participating in the conformation ring if you want to see them at premier. there are many that already show at conf events and if they were given TT points, then that would give them more incentive to go to MI and eventually possibly show up on Thur or Fri (if TT finals moved).

by targeting the bench hounds, that "most" do not do conf events now you will still not, or ever, get them to show up at premier no matter where it is since that type of event is just not their cup of tea.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 07-18-2013 12:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Sandi
why not make premiere mandatory for top ten dogs? if in fact the 1st dog can not attend then you take the #2 dog and so on? Isnt this why you wan the top ten points anyway? A chance to show the all breed world what a remarkable coonhound is? Most of our hounds are "hidden" at the bench shows! Give them a chance to "strut their stuff"
With this said, I just asked and NEVER got a response to my question of does a hound get top 10 pts at the all breed shows? if so how does it work.... how many pts and is it awarded at breed, group or just for bos?

why even show them at all if you worked all yr to be #1
under how many judges to have 1 say this is the best?

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 07-18-2013 12:54 AM:

1 more and i am done with it there is no way the pts. system
is fair if i have beat 40 dogs with reg. dog and gr beats 10 and
has 40 there were around 6gr male and 6 gr female and 3-4 ch
male and female at last 1 not only do they get more pts they
have more dogs.i see it 1pt for every dog across the brd.

Posted by Cynthia on 07-18-2013 01:36 AM:

well, usually at most shows there are more registered than champions or grands. it gives ppl that have ch and gr some incentive to bring their dogs out to the local clubs and helps the clubs at the same time. the only places you really have an abundance of ch/gr is at AO, WC and most breed events.

Posted by Ky Show Girl on 07-18-2013 03:02 AM:

why would you even take a gr to local event?lol

Posted by Cynthia on 07-18-2013 04:07 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Ky Show Girl
why would you even take a gr to local event?lol

to get top ten points and support ur local club!!!! duh

Posted by GrandRiver Reds on 07-18-2013 06:00 AM:

I have a few opinions on this topic first , I dont understand how Beagles have top ten bench and top ten conformation but coonhounds dont?

to me its unfair to those of us who work our butts off in the ukc conformation events for really nothing, because in order to get to the invitational top ten at premier you have to compete in a whole other venue. it doesn't make since.

Very few of us really compete competitively in both, so why should we not be treated like all the other breeds and compete for top ten points in the venue in which you enjoy showing.

ukc bench and ukc conformation are 2 totally different worlds, the dogs that excel in one don't normally excel at the other, if you know what I mean. which I find odd but very true.

in confirmation the look at the dogs movement more then anything, because you can't hide faults easily on the ground, like you can on the bench. the same group of hounds can go in to a conformation ring and come out with a drastically different result, than if they were judged only on the bench. I think that might be the reason SOME don't attend the conformation shows. others its just not there thing which is understandable.

I enjoy both bench and conformation. but think there needs to be done changes in both to allow everyone to enjoy what they like.

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Posted by Cynthia on 07-18-2013 11:17 AM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GrandRiver Reds
I have a few opinions on this topic first , I dont understand how Beagles have top ten bench and top ten conformation but coonhounds dont?

I asked about this, Allen said they only get conformation points.

to me its unfair to those of us who work our butts off in the ukc conformation events for really nothing, because in order to get to the invitational top ten at premier you have to compete in a whole other venue. it doesn't make since.

agree, and that may be why they are wanting to change esp since no coonhounds showed up for TT at premier.

ukc bench and ukc conformation are 2 totally different worlds, the dogs that excel in one don't normally excel at the other, if you know what I mean. which I find odd but very true.

in confirmation the look at the dogs movement more then anything, because you can't hide faults easily on the ground, like you can on the bench. the same group of hounds can go in to a conformation ring and come out with a drastically different result, than if they were judged only on the bench. I think that might be the reason SOME don't attend the conformation shows. others its just not there thing which is understandable.

VERY true!!! you would think that a top bench show dog would do well in conf but unfortunately lots of times it cant.

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