UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- UKC Coonhounds (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=4)
-- It’s not the Best dog!!! (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928541443)

It’s not the Best dog!!!

We have a misunderstanding of what a competition hunt is. It’s not the best dog should win. It’s the best team should win. It’s a team sport handler and dog. If you take the handler out of the equation you fail to have an understanding of what this sport truly is. Sometimes it’s a three man team owner, handler, and dog. So stop saying the best dog didn’t win that’s only part of the team.

__________________
Jason Smith
Home Of
National GrNtCh GrNt GrCh Dark Side of Skuna River

Gr Nt Ch Maniac's Dark Side of the Moon

Jason Smith

Well spoken post, there is where many folks miss the boat. Often times a really good handler wins with a average dog, while a poor handler loses with a very good dog. Competition hunting is most definitely a team sport, where the better handler and better dog can excel when neither makes a mistake. Mistakes by either the handler or dog can cost the team a win, just exactly what happened in the final cast of the UKC WORLD HUNT. We all have seen a handlers mistake cost a good dog a win and a dogs mistake cost the team a win. You can not separate the fact that competition hunting is a team sport period. Dave

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

I think that is 100% spot on; however, shouldn't we be trying to always move and evolve toward it being about the best dog?

__________________
______________________________
Seeking Soli Deo Gloria through the hounds.

The less it's about the best dog winning, the less people want to play

quote:

---

Originally posted by houndsound
I think that is 100% spot on; however, shouldn't we be trying to always move and evolve toward it being about the best dog?

---

We all make mistakes and we all pay for those mistakes whether it is in life or a comp coon hunt.
How many handlers on here have never been scratched in a coon hunt for making an honest mistake? I have. How many handlers on here have ever caused their dog to take minus points for their mistake? I have a lot. When the stakes are the highest everyone gets nervous and can make a mistake. It doesn't matter who you are or how many hunts that you have been in or how well you know the rules. Most of the time you have to pay for your mistakes. When $10,000 is on the line very few people will say, "oh that is all right, it was just a mistake". "We will let it by this time".

What if a handler called his dog treed too quick, the dog moved and the handler said, "that was my mistake, y'all shouldn't minus the dog"?

In other words the title of World Champion Coon Hound should play a very small part in the decision of wether or not to breed your prize female to him or to breed your mediocre female with the expectation you’re going to get outstanding hounds just because you bred to the World Champion.

__________________
Dan

The good night in night out dogs closest to you can at times give you the best chance of giving you good hounds if you know them well.

__________________
Dan

You got to love this sport—

So if the “ scratched” female had a litter of pups and the World Champion had a litter of pups and the prices were the same and the distance to pick them up was the same, which one would “you” want? I see the best dog and the lucky dog. I have never been impressed with titles because if this doesn’t prove that most are won with the handler, I do not know how much more black and white it has to get?

__________________
OLD TIMER

F I were looking to breed to the world ch or get a pup from qorld ch female Personally I would want to breed to the world ch dogs sire I think we over look what it took to get the world ch where it is give credit where it due.

Re: You got to love this sport—

quote:

---

Originally posted by OLD TIMER
So if the “ scratched” female had a litter of pups and the World Champion had a litter of pups and the prices were the same and the distance to pick them up was the same, which one would “you” want? I see the best dog and the lucky dog. I have never been impressed with titles because if this doesn’t prove that most are won with the handler, I do not know how much more black and white it has to get?

---

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Honey: mommy, jr dropped the toy daddy got him
Mommy: did it break?
Honey: no mommy, but it could of
Mommy: was you harmed Honey?
Honey: no mommy I'm ok
Mommy: oh good, now go run and play Honey
Honey: but mommy can have the toy?
Mommy: no Honey, your ok baby, let mommy rub back, aww poor baby jr dropped his toy

I'm still anxious to know what exact rule was broken and if another handler questioned it or the judge caught it.

__________________
Ezekiel 23:20

Re: You got to love this sport—

quote:

---

Originally posted by OLD TIMER
So if the “ scratched” female had a litter of pups and the World Champion had a litter of pups and the prices were the same and the distance to pick them up was the same, which one would “you” want? I see the best dog and the lucky dog. I have never been impressed with titles because if this doesn’t prove that most are won with the handler, I do not know how much more black and white it has to get?

---

__________________
Jason Smith
Home Of
National GrNtCh GrNt GrCh Dark Side of Skuna River

Gr Nt Ch Maniac's Dark Side of the Moon

Coon dogs

I think we all need to take a deep breath and really think about things- all 3 of these hounds are coon dogs in my book. There might be one I like more than the others but at the end of the day they all proved that they are good enough to be world champion! You think it was easy to make it to the final cast? You think they didn't face stiff competition all the way through? Making the finals is the accomplishment-once you get there anything can happen. There is probably a nice hound or two out there that caught a bad break or drew a dead cast that is good enough to be world champion. What about the dog that scored nearly 800 plus and lost on a tiebreaker? You don't think thats a dog worthy of making it? It takes a break falling your way and a lot of luck to go with your coon dog to get there!!!

__________________
Dustin Buchanan

Re: Coon dogs

quote:

---

Originally posted by Coal295
I think we all need to take a deep breath and really think about things- all 3 of these hounds are coon dogs in my book. There might be one I like more than the others but at the end of the day they all proved that they are good enough to be world champion! You think it was easy to make it to the final cast? You think they didn't face stiff competition all the way through? Making the finals is the accomplishment-once you get there anything can happen. There is probably a nice hound or two out there that caught a bad break or drew a dead cast that is good enough to be world champion. What about the dog that scored nearly 800 plus and lost on a tiebreaker? You don't think thats a dog worthy of making it? It takes a break falling your way and a lot of luck to go with your coon dog to get there!!!

---

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Re: You got to love this sport—

quote:

---

Originally posted by Night Shift
Did anyone listen to the play by play? How many coon do you think the female treed and how many did the world champion tree while they were still hunting against each other.

---

__________________
Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Re: Re: Re: You got to love this sport—

quote:

---

Originally posted by Dave Richards
Jason, I listened to the play by play and before the scratch Miney treed on the first coon 2nd tree and then treed one by herself. She had 2nd strike 2nd tree on the first coon scored and second strike 1st tree by herself on the second coon scored. Outlaw took 100 minus on the first tree coon seen and Bo took a 125 minus on a tree he left. At that point Miney had 350 plus, Bo had 50 plus and Outlaw had 100 minus. The answer to your question was she scored on 2 coons before the scratch. Miney proved to be deadly accurate all 3 nights of the World Championship and she was smoking on the final cast. At the time she was scratched Jerald was sitting in the driver's seat and pulling away from the other 2 dogs and that's a fact, she was 2 coons ahead at that time and No doubt would have scored more points if not for the scratch. Look at the final score and you will notice that the other 2 dogs failed to reach her score even though they hunted the full 2 hours and that's a fact. Dave

---

__________________
Jason Smith
Home Of
National GrNtCh GrNt GrCh Dark Side of Skuna River

Gr Nt Ch Maniac's Dark Side of the Moon

Night Shift

that is BIG of you to say that!

As I am guessing that do to going back to panel, y'all perrty much cut back into where you had started the night?

That would could have changed the hunt as well ?
Hunting mostly the same ground a 2nd time and all?

I would guess that a different Ground , or cutting in the same ground from the other side could have made for better chances ?

who knows ? But , nice you stepped up to say so as the guide!

Although both dogs still in the hunt had the same opportunity, as they was cut back in together! Not as if one had an advantage of being in new hunting and the other did not .


And I know there are way to many rules as it is huh!!!!!

But , why not leave the when one has to cut loose as is?
but, with an **** that the handler has the option to cut as soon as they wnat too , But , if they do and dog returns to same tree ? they take a MINUS ! ****

That leaves it too a TEAM DEAL!!!! Handler becomes responsible for that ERROR !!!! Not waiting till Dog is far away from the tree to not return!!!!
Dog still has to be cut be the rules! But Handler has the option , so it is on them!

quote:

---

Originally posted by hemihomey
I'm still anxious to know what exact rule was broken and if another handler questioned it or the judge caught it.

---

__________________
Ezekiel 23:20

Definitely a two part team. As to all the other comments and drama, Trevor a hand picked non hunting judge a three man panel and camera man were all there and everything was finalized sat night. OVER! Once again congrats Ricky and Jo and all other finalists

How long ago was it

That we had this world hunt controversy??
Ole World Champ Sambo

QUOTE]Originally posted by Patrick Moore
What saved him is that he wasn't barking at the bush with the "Baby" dog. Had he been, rule 4J applies. He would have been assigned next available tree points then minused strike & tree.
He was already struck in, so he wasn't "shut out" on strike.
Even though hunt time may have expired, you still score the tree involved like they did. [/QUOTE]

__________________
Ezekiel 23:20

I know what’s been on her about way the little female was scratched. I’ve heard it many times in the hunts,( if you catch your dog before judge tells you or if you turn it out before. Where did that come from. Someone please tell me, because I just cant find which rule that pertains to that situation.

Handler Related Offense:
(i) For use of any device used to control dog prior to cast completing hunt time.
(j) If handler hollers at or physically abuses the dog. (k) If handler fails to declare treed a dog obviously treeing (Judge’s decision) for a period of five minutes. Dog may be declared treed while five is running but not after the five has expired. Judge must verify dog to be at a tree before it can be scratched. If the cast is in the process of shining a separate tree time shall be canceled or not be
applied to another dog.
(l) If handler fails to return to MOH/HD after cast
becomes separated. Time period allotted is
determined by MOH/HD.
(m) For climbing or cutting trees or disturbing a place
of refuge.
(n) For intentionally killing coon or other game.
(o) For searching tree before the start of shining time. (p)For failure to stay with the cast unless given
NITE HUNTS
NITE HUNTS
52 Official UKC Coonhound Rulebook
Official UKC Coonhound Rulebook 53

permission to leave.
(q) For encouraging, discouraging or physically abusing
a dog. Praising a handled dog is not considered
encouraging.
(r) For use of scoring aids other than light or mechanical
squallers. Laser pointer light is permitted.
(s) Handler’s dog will be scratched for rule violations by
their spectators.
(t) If handler displays Unsportsmanlike Conduct*
towards any individual on club grounds or during
the hunt.
(u) If scorecard lacks handler’s signature or if event
official cannot satisfactorily determine accurate score, dog(s) affected will be scratched. Refer to Rule 12 (c), if applicable.

__________________
BigCountry
Tommy Gayle
985-233-1016

Try 11 (d) Recasting. It's an implied scratch.

__________________
Friends don't let friends hunt blueticks

An implied scratch... that can't really be a thing is it?

__________________
______________________________
Seeking Soli Deo Gloria through the hounds.