UKC Forums - Layup Coon

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-- Layup Coon (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=441735)

Posted by Brian Ratliff on 08-03-2011 11:50 AM:

Layup Coon

How do you Guy's Determine if a Coon has been layed up?

I hear all the time ( that coon has been up a long time ). Some go as far as saying its been up 9-10-11-12 hrs. Most all the time its because the dog never Barks on the ground Just Falls Treed.

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-03-2011 01:13 PM:

The biggest part is knowing your dog. For example two nights ago I was hunting my female who is wide open on track, She treed a coon and opened probably 100 times on it. I re casted her and she went 400 yards and fell treed never giving 1 ground bark. It was around 1 a.m. and by the looks of the coon and tree I would say it had been up there a good while. That to me is a dog laying up a coon.

Some guys "claim" that there dog can tree a coon without it even being on the ground by the wind scent pattern. I however do not believe that. They say thats laying up a coon.

Posted by GA DAWG on 08-03-2011 02:09 PM:

When one trees a coon and no others have a clue its there. That's a lay up. You can usually tell by a dogs actions if it can tree them. If you've hunted it long enough. Just going through the woods and falling treed without a ground bark certainly don't mean its a lay up. You just kinda know. I recken.

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Posted by plentyofpossum on 08-03-2011 02:24 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1

Some guys "claim" that there dog can tree a coon without it even being on the ground by the wind scent pattern. I however do not believe that. They say thats laying up a coon.

I call that wind treeing. My dogs do it all the time. That's how and why bear hunters rig a dog. When it strikes, it's time to turn the pack out on it. And not all hounds can do it. But believe it or not it does happen.

If a bear dog can smell an hour old track while rigging. Why couldn't a coon dog smell a coon 50' up a tree.

Posted by delta nightlife on 08-03-2011 02:35 PM:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by GA DAWG
[B]When one trees a coon and no others have a clue its there. That's a lay up. You can usually tell by a dogs actions if it can tree them.

thats my def. also

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Posted by Rip on 08-03-2011 03:16 PM:

Yep, and if it's your dog there is no better feeling than seeing her there with the meat while every other dog is lookin like she is crazy wandering around trying to see what she is barking at.

I had one that did that to other dogs quite regular. I miss that old girl.

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Posted by ronald schultz on 08-03-2011 04:30 PM:

Hoosier Man 1

"Some guys "claim" that there dog can tree a coon without it even being on the ground by the wind scent pattern. I however do not believe that. They say thats laying up a coon" .............................................................................. sir?, How long have you been coonhunting?!

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-03-2011 04:33 PM:

Re: Hoosier Man 1

quote:
Originally posted by ronald schultz
"Some guys "claim" that there dog can tree a coon without it even being on the ground by the wind scent pattern. I however do not believe that. They say thats laying up a coon" sir?, How long have you been coonhunting?!

Long enough to know what a horrible, bad, average, above average and a great dog is.

Posted by ronald schultz on 08-03-2011 04:59 PM:

h-m-1 not meaning to insult , or sound like i know it all

CUZ ITS FACT I DONT KNOW MUCH!!! but it seems hard to believe that you havent been able to observe a dog find a coon that hasnt been down....its neat, ! as bill said, in situations like this it can make some otherwise very darn good dogs look like idiots!! .............. happy huntin to ya!!!

Posted by II Chance on 08-03-2011 05:38 PM:

Bellar's Treated Lumber

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
The biggest part is knowing your dog. For example two nights ago I was hunting my female who is wide open on track, She treed a coon and opened probably 100 times on it. I re casted her and she went 400 yards and fell treed never giving 1 ground bark. It was around 1 a.m. and by the looks of the coon and tree I would say it had been up there a good while. That to me is a dog laying up a coon.

Some guys "claim" that there dog can tree a coon without it even being on the ground by the wind scent pattern. I however do not believe that. They say thats laying up a coon.

I started hunting this dog this spring and several times i have tryed to send him into a woods only to have him turn go 600 to 900 yards no barks the ground fall treed. Had to show Mr. Bellar himself! Had the coon ever time. The dog is a open track dog.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-03-2011 05:39 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Billme94
I your dog has never "winded" a coon and then treed it you might want to move from the computer to the woods.
I know of a grand night female that would "wind" while leading her down a fence row(never making a sound but would lift her head in the air) and when you cast the dogs you could watch her hold her head head up turn around to where it was at and get a first and first on you everytime. Most guys wouldn't strike in because they thought she was babbling. So she gets 225+ and you get 75+ at best

Billy Billy Billy, please! Every dog I have had would wind along fence rows and the edge of woods. But guess what? Those coon that my dogs wind were ON THE GROUND at some point. No dog is going to wind a coon in a woods up lets say a huge oak tree. it's not going to happen. Do you know the odds of your dog "winding a layup coon up a 60 foot tall tree" and picking the right tree the coon was actually on? Not good and if you have a dog that likes to stick its head UP and not DOWN then I will guarantee you will walk to alot of slick trees.

Many many dogs give mouth according to how hot or cold the track is. If it's a cold track alot of dogs won't say much on the ground and some won't open a bit. The ones that don't open any think their dog just did a heck of a job and winded a coon that hadn't been down yet.

Yes sir Ronald I have been hunting awhile. Have spent many nights in the woods alone with my dogs and went to hundreds of hunts maybe even thousands.

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-03-2011 05:40 PM:

Re: Bellar's Treated Lumber

quote:
Originally posted by II Chance
I started hunting this dog this spring and several times i have tryed to send him into a woods only to have turn go 600 to 900 yards no barks the ground fall treed. Had to show Mr. Bellar himself! The dog is a open track dog.

Wind pattern will attract a dog to the scent but it will NOT show the tree Mr. Ringtail went up. If a dog starts treeing off the air waves then it is guessing.

Posted by Two Toes on 08-03-2011 06:24 PM:

Re: h-m-1 not meaning to insult , or sound like i know it all

quote:
Originally posted by ronald schultz
as bill said, in situations like this it can make some otherwise very darn good dogs look like idiots!! .............. happy huntin to ya!!!

Agree 100%

Been watchin & study'n it for many many years, Been fortunate to have a quite a few of'um that can or could pick'um outa the thermals.

A dog that don't have a heads up style will not tree them that-a-way! You need toe nail extendin, with a touch of hind leg dancin to reach as far up as they can models. Them kinda dogs are usually very fast track dogs among their peers as well.

Often times running as much as 30 yards down wind of the track & carryin the mail. Confirmed to many times to count while huntin in the snow winter after winter. If you've hunted with one like this enough you will also see that those dogs are more apt to catch coon in the cornfeilds or in the timber.

Watch some good bird dogs go,they don't suck leaves but work the thermals. They can tell when the bird moves without seein it. They also are always downwind. Why alot of bird hunters hunt into the wind. We try to do the same like I'm sure a lot of ya'll do.

It is a wonderess capability that seem's to be hard to duplicate consistently. Age nutures & basic experience like anything makes one better at your job & tasks at hand. Their are those that have been tryin to duplicate it for a long time to thoroughly instill this capability by huntin what they breed to find the superior individuals to utilize in the next step.

We had one litter that all are like that but unfortunately there was only three pups that survived. One subtracted because of crooked legs at 6 months. One two wins from dual grand while goin thru two doses of Lymes & a dual champion that will drop out of a race & tree's them sittin up coon. Got another outa a different litter that is our long range tail dancer supreme. She hunts nothin but the wind 80% of the time.+225 models or in contention for it & extremely accurate. Our 2011 litter is a repeat of that cross & thankfully she & we are raisin seven this time. With these we'll get a better picture of the percentage. I assure you we are extremely antsi for them to become of age & keepin most of them. Why we make a cross solely in the modern era.

33 years goin down the road with both eye's open.....

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Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-03-2011 06:56 PM:

The real truth of the matter is I don't care how the dog trees a coon as long as when I unsnap that lead it gets treed quick and it has a coon in the majority of its trees.

Posted by Two Toes on 08-03-2011 07:16 PM:

BASICALLY "YEP"

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
The real truth of the matter is I don't care how the dog trees a coon as long as when I unsnap that lead it gets treed quick and it has a coon in the majority of its trees.

What we all expect. Just different styles of gettin it done & the reason you may not like my dog & I yours.

Ain't it great to have options in our flavor of coonhuntin companions?

By the way,My Ford can smoke your Dodge or Chevy or Toyota....

Posted by Hoosier Man1 on 08-03-2011 07:20 PM:

Re: BASICALLY "YEP"

quote:
Originally posted by Two Toes
What we all expect. Just different styles of gettin it done & the reason you may not like my dog & I yours.

Ain't it great to have options in our flavor of coonhuntin companions?

By the way,My Ford can smoke your Dodge or Chevy or Toyota....

Yes but after many hunts I questiion peoples "taste" lol

Posted by GOING DEEP on 08-03-2011 07:32 PM:

I myself think there are two deffinitions to a layup coon there are the old tracks that lead a dog to a tree where u find a coon balled up sleepin in a big fork generally not very high up. Then u have them coon been up there so long there is no track to run and the dog has head in the air dancen on their toes locating and treein off the thermals in the air as Russ descibes. once a guy has had a few of these types of dogs he won't be happy with one that cant tree them ol'layup coons

Posted by Two Toes on 08-03-2011 07:34 PM:

Re: Re: BASICALLY "YEP"

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Yes but after many hunts I questiion peoples "taste" lol

I hear that! "Choices"

Posted by roughcreek on 08-03-2011 08:18 PM:

how many times have you been sittin in a deer stand watching a deer & it get down wind bust you & turn & look straight at you up a tree? most hounds just aint got the nose & the brains to tree these layup coons.

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Posted by Jim Hill on 08-03-2011 08:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Billy Billy Billy, please! Every dog I have had would wind along fence rows and the edge of woods. But guess what? Those coon that my dogs wind were ON THE GROUND at some point. No dog is going to wind a coon in a woods up lets say a huge oak tree. it's not going to happen. Do you know the odds of your dog "winding a layup coon up a 60 foot tall tree" and picking the right tree the coon was actually on? Not good and if you have a dog that likes to stick its head UP and not DOWN then I will guarantee you will walk to alot of slick trees.

Many many dogs give mouth according to how hot or cold the track is. If it's a cold track alot of dogs won't say much on the ground and some won't open a bit. The ones that don't open any think their dog just did a heck of a job and winded a coon that hadn't been down yet.

Yes sir Ronald I have been hunting awhile. Have spent many nights in the woods alone with my dogs and went to hundreds of hunts maybe even thousands.

so your saying a dog cant be standing on a tail gate of a truck after a hunt and wind a coon oh lets say 80 yards sitting up in a tree???

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Posted by Sambo on 08-03-2011 10:20 PM:

Like driving down the road and smelling steak on the grill. Things get winded all the time. Craziness!

Posted by Glenn Wells on 08-03-2011 10:35 PM:

Believe it or not there are dogs that do wind coons, and lines that throw the trait and dogs that have the trait and pass it on. If you have gotten used to the old layup dogs, those trail only dogs will never make you happy, always something missing. I wonder how many dogs have been hit with the shocker and scolded for barking in the box going down the road, when all they were doing was winding where a coon had crossed the road, and the folks didn't know what they had.
If you hunt around rivers, sloughs and full fledged swamps, a layup winding type dog is the only way to go ! There have been many night when I've seen a couple of coons setting in a fork and watched the trail dogs run right past them, then turn winding ones loose and peel them off the tree ! As far as running a track both would be the same, but a true wind hunter will run past very few.

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Posted by intellectualist on 08-03-2011 10:39 PM:

Re: Re: Bellar's Treated Lumber

quote:
Originally posted by Hoosier Man1
Wind pattern will attract a dog to the scent but it will NOT show the tree Mr. Ringtail went up. If a dog starts treeing off the air waves then it is guessing.

I think you guys are totally missing the point on what this gentleman is saying.

Posted by intellectualist on 08-03-2011 10:40 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jim Hill
so your saying a dog cant be standing on a tail gate of a truck after a hunt and wind a coon oh lets say 80 yards sitting up in a tree???

That is not what he said at all!

Posted by Rip on 08-03-2011 11:43 PM:

Hosier, the little female I am talking about could and DID quite regularly tree coon and have the meat treeing on nothing but the thermals. Never smelling the ground or the tree.

Conditions have to be right for that, with the thermals coming down etc, I've seen her run right underneath coons sittin up when the conditions weren't right too.

But she was the way others here had seen, would run a track with her head up, caught coon on the ground regularly, and treed coons on thermals without ever smelling the tree. Many times she would be directly under the coon in a big oak, never going to the base of the tree, standing straight up on her hind legs treein away. I've seen her come out of a truck, wind a coon and immediately go the other direction of every other dog in the cast and end up treein on her hind legs within sight and her never smell the ground or the tree.

Oh yeah, dogs like that are the opposite of what you would think. If they have that ability they don't miss much at all. They are very accurate.

Hard to believe that unless you had one or been around one alot but they are out there and they can do it if they have the ability.

I've never owned another one with that ability either. I keep hoping but never have had one yet.

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