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Two rules question

Had a good hunt over the weekend but we had several questions come up regarding two scoring situations. I am always looking to learn so I wanted to share them with you all and see if they were handled correctly. The judge was also the guide of the our 3 dog cast.

Situation 1:

Dogs were cast into a small wooded hollow between two fields. Dogs A and B are struck in almost off the chain in that order. Dog B trees followed by Dog A. Dog C never struck in. Tree closed and A and B were handled at the tree. After we had been at the tree for about 3 minutes, dog C comes into general area, heads towards the cast and puts her nose on the tree but never barks or rears up on tree. Judge instructed handler to handle the dog. Tree was scored and it was obviously slick. Dog A ended up with 175- and Dog B with 200-. Dog C was assigned tree points and minused (50-). Call was questioned but was scored as judge initially scored. After this tree, dog A minused out and was scratched.

Situation 2:

Dog B and C were struck in that order (by this time, dog A had minused out) Dog B trails hard to the right and comes treed while C hooks left. B is declared treed about 700 yards from the cast so we proceed to tree. Tree was circled. We leave the tree and head towards dog C which is can be plainly heard about 500 yards away. We continue to walk in the direction of dog C another 300 yards or so. At that point, judge declares he is putting stationary on C and is not going to recast his dog, dog B. Handler of Dog C questioned the call stating that he had to recast since a dog was opening but had not been declared treed. Judge replied that he was treeing the dog for handler of dog C by putting the stationary on it. At this point there were 7 minutes left in the cast. Handler of dog C treed dog C with about 10 seconds left on the stationary. Dog C was found to be in a hole and hunt time was over.

Dog C won cast with 325+ and neither of these calls had any bearing of the outcome of the cast. Were these two situations handled correctly?

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Well I take a stab at this one. Under scenario #1- I believe dog C was scored INCORRECTLY. Dog C should not have been awarded tree points for coming in to a closed tree, that was determined to be empty and minuses accordingly. To have been able to minus dog C in that scenario, Dog C would have had to have been on THAT tree and TREEING when the cast arrived, to have been awarded tree points and minuses

The fact that the cast arrived at the tree before dog C, and the fact that the tree was misused, eliminates the ability to minus this dog (C) under those set of circumstances

As for scenario #2, I believe the judge was somewhat within his realm of handling the situation correctly BUT it feels to me as if the judge was attempting to heavy handedly get dog C misused by forcing him to tree his dog when the dog was (in fact) not treed. The handler of dog C should have been asking for the judge to release his dog WAY before covering, an additional 300 yards after hearing the dog opening on track. That is handler C's fault for not demanding the judge release his dog. It feels to me as if the judge knew the dog was not treed right but was forcing handler of dog C to make a gutsy call when all were pretty sure the dog was not treeing satisfactorily. This is a prime example of how I feel this rule gets twisted and eliminates the word HONOR from our scoring guidelines.

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Situation 1 was scored wrong because as Dave said, dog C was not treeing when the judge arrived. Read rule 4 (k).

Situation 2 was score wrong because a judge cannot tree any dog but his own. So right up front, that was wrong. Secondly, after leaving the tree, the judge is required to cast his dog as soon as dog C is heard opening. He must cast his dog or be scratched.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Situation 1 was scored wrong because as Dave said, dog C was not treeing when the judge arrived. Read rule 4 (k).

Situation 2 was score wrong because a judge cannot tree any dog but his own. So right up front, that was wrong. Secondly, after leaving the tree, the judge is required to cast his dog as soon as dog C is heard opening. He must cast his dog or be scratched.

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Yup

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Situation 1 was scored wrong because as Dave said, dog C was not treeing when the judge arrived. Read rule 4 (k).

Situation 2 was score wrong because a judge cannot tree any dog but his own. So right up front, that was wrong. Secondly, after leaving the tree, the judge is required to cast his dog as soon as dog C is heard opening. He must cast his dog or be scratched.

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__________________
Pigg River Treeing Walkers
🍀☠️🍀☠️🍀

Simon Rucker
(540)-420-1787

GrNiteCh PKC CH 'PR' Candy's Stylish Swag 2014 VA State PKC top 10 and 2022/2023 Super Stakes Sire & 2022 UKC Performance Sire
CH NiteCh 'PR' Stylish Poison Neon Moon
CH NiteCh 'PR' Riverbottom Sally
NiteCh 'PR' Froggy Bottom Daisy