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The Death of Trailing Hounds

Glancing at some older hunting magazines I noticed a lot of articles talking about cold nosed hounds. For example "So and So will work out and tree as cold a trail as any dog he has hunted with." And "So and so could strike a cold track, and move it with ease." It got me thinking that here lately I haven't hunted with many hounds that can work a bad track. Most dogs now a days get through the country, barely in hearing range and get treed. Call me old fashioned but I'm a fan of the hounds of yesterday. The last few pups I've trained have been so tree minded, they spent more time checking trees then they did with their nose on the ground. Seems like hounds have lost the will to run and trail. I can't find a pup that has enough grit to run a deer or a fox, they just want to tree. I've trained hounds that didn't start treeing till they were over 2 years old, yet made very nice Coon Dogs. Now a days seems like people give up on a pup at 11, 12, 13 months old.

Any one else like dogs similar to the ones I speak of?
What breeds or lines throws these types of hounds?

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i liked the old blood dog's way better than today's dog's but most of today's youner gen hunter's expect a 6 month old pup to go like a mature hound and tree coon im like you ive seen alot of the old blod do nothing much till they were 2 yr olds i usally never start a pup till thier at least 8-9 months old but most when they are a yr old

Re: The Death of Trailing Hounds

quote:

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Originally posted by TrackDrifter
Glancing at some older hunting magazines I noticed a lot of articles talking about cold nosed hounds. For example "So and So will work out and tree as cold a trail as any dog he has hunted with." And "So and so could strike a cold track, and move it with ease." It got me thinking that here lately I haven't hunted with many hounds that can work a bad track. Most dogs now a days get through the country, barely in hearing range and get treed. Call me old fashioned but I'm a fan of the hounds of yesterday. The last few pups I've trained have been so tree minded, they spent more time checking trees then they did with their nose on the ground. Seems like hounds have lost the will to run and trail. I can't find a pup that has enough grit to run a deer or a fox, they just want to tree. I've trained hounds that didn't start treeing till they were over 2 years old, yet made very nice Coon Dogs. Now a days seems like people give up on a pup at 11, 12, 13 months old.

Any one else like dogs similar to the ones I speak of?
What breeds or lines throws these types of hounds?

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I just scratch my head when i read these posts, Why would anyone choose to feed and hunt a dog that doesnt tree until they are 2 years old, or one that will take a track that is an hour old. If a coon just wobbles along at one mile per hour where is that hour old track gonna take ya?
Im as old fashioned as the next guy but im not tradin my P/U for a mule and wagon.

To each there own,Just run an AD. (Wanted... late starter with enough grit to run deer and fox.) shouldnt be to hard to find.

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I don't see why a cold nosed, tracking dog can't be bred to start early too. One trait shouldn't wash out the other.

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death of a trailing hound is the reason when coon aren't moving dogs get bored and the start running trash there bored might well run something ! i'll bet there is only a handful of guys on this board ever watched a true cold nose dog run a track 2 to 3 hours and get the coon I have and can name many witnesses to this fact ! I still here the leaves rustling between long bawls and then came the occasional chop to say hey i'm warming it up and yes I will locate on every tap and move on until I find the tree he is up and settle to a steady chop now this dog could strike from the car and tree under 5 minutes as well

quote:

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Originally posted by groworg1
death of a trailing hound is the reason when coon aren't moving dogs get bored and the start running trash there bored might well run something ! i'll bet there is only a handful of guys on this board ever watched a true cold nose dog run a track 2 to 3 hours and get the coon I have and can name many witnesses to this fact ! I still here the leaves rustling between long bawls and then came the occasional chop to say hey i'm warming it up and yes I will locate on every tap and move on until I find the tree he is up and settle to a steady chop now this dog could strike from the car and tree under 5 minutes as well

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I love a dog that can strike an old bad track get it jumped get to pushing it sound like they're going to catch it then make it climb when you are on the way to the tree you can about bet your going to look at it ! I hate a dog that rattles off the chain don't shut up hits four or five trees in a mile gets treed you got a gut feeling your not going to see nothing when you get there .

Wipeout dogs,clover dogs and Skuna river bark and homer x swamp bred hounds will take older tracks and work them up and puts coonn the end and won't take all night to do it !!! These dogs are still around !!! For the most part comp hunts have controlled the way a lot of people breed and what traits they breed for !! Jmo it has hurt all the breeds where a lot of hounds today can't run a track gone 5 minutes !!! Those dogs in my country you would look at a lot of empty trees are you might not ever get struck!!!! My self I could care less about a 150 bpm tree dog I will take a 60 bpm sit on there buttered of !!!although I have been fortunate to own a few that have won a few bigger hunts but for the most I am a pleasure hunter that goes to a couple bigger hunts a year and that's it !! So I'm spending more time pleasure hunting than comp hunting and there's nothing better the hearing a hound work a cold track up to a running race to thenextavailable tree or get caught !!!

quote:

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
I just scratch my head when i read these posts, Why would anyone choose to feed and hunt a dog that doesnt tree until they are 2 years old, or one that will take a track that is an hour old. If a coon just wobbles along at one mile per hour where is that hour old track gonna take ya?
Im as old fashioned as the next guy but im not tradin my P/U for a mule and wagon.

To each there own,Just run an AD. (Wanted... late starter with enough grit to run deer and fox.) shouldnt be to hard to find.

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We have some big blocks of timber(pine plantations) around here. Coon populations probably less than one coon per 100 acres. Most nights your go yonder dogs will cover MILES with out a bark (I've had them). My colder nosed dogs will go in there, strike, trail, and tree and not take all night to do it either. They can also make most dogs lag behind on a good track.

Some places your go yonder dogs are great but some places you would not like them for very long.

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well john it all depended many times he would open right where you dropped along the edge up around the hill down the hedge row to the corn field up the next hedge row to the pond around the pond down the creek into the next woods thru the swamp up the mountain down over the hill and never get out of hearing as I stated many people witnessed it first hand 2 to 3 hours many many times now I hunt a dog line today that will tree 2 -3 to his 1 when the coon are moving but when the coon weren't moving that dog still got coon in 40 years I've never seen another one like him a buddy has a buck creek female that is cold nosed but I don't think she runs a track over a hour old

Why would somebody wanna have a go yonder lookin for a smokin hot one or a lay up all the time? Yeah it's nice to have a fast paced night sometimes and I guess in competition that's what it takes. But I for one like to listen to a race every now and then. Not just a few barks and then locked down on a tree. Nothin like the sound of a old cold nosed dog heating up a track by the minute. Now I don't want one that tries to run the cold track but can't go anywhere. But a dog with a cold nose and track drivin power to take that track and move it is a blast to listen to.

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A poodle can smell a track that is hours old and tree it if it wants to. What dogs are missing now and back then is the WANT TO, the desire. If you can find one that is full of desire it makes all the rest look easy.

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To each their own, but listening to a dog only go a mile in 3 hours to tree a coon is not what I would consider enjoyable

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Trackdrifter...I hunt the type of dog you are talking about. American Blue Gascons. I have a 3 year old male, a 1 year old male, a ten month old female, and a 4 month old female. My three year old Connor dog is 27" tall, has 26" ears, and weighs around 110 pounds. He has a beautiful bawl mouth and is quite capable of running an old cold track amd putting it on the tree. Bruce Hanna of northern Ohio has a few of these hounds that do it quite well. I am located in Seymour, IN if you would like to see them sometime.

I will have to say I agree with Josh. I been hunting blue dogs since the early 70s and cant say I ever had to have one run a track that old. Now I have owned a many cold nose hounds in my day but I personaly don't want one to take that long to tree a coon, they may have run 3 or 4 hour old tracks but it didn't take no 1 to 3 hours to do it.

I think a lot of you have misread the intention I had when I wrote this post. Never did I mention I wanted a SLOW dog, that's a big misconception with a lot of cold nosed dogs. My post was meant to reflect the lack of nose and tracking power in a lot of today's lines. Like I mentioned the last few pups I trained weren't nothing but slick treer's. All 3 were out of very reputable (ALL-GRAND) crosses and I doubt they could trail a biscuit a cross the floor. They were beautiful, 2 had decent mouths, 1 sounded like a house dog. They were all tree dog deluxe but lacked the desire, track power, and brains that a lot of dogs of the past possessed. I titled this thread "THE DEATH OF TRAILING HOUNDS," because my intent was to find hounds that could still run a track. I know there is some excellent dogs out there but on the other hand there's way to many TREE HAPPY, SLICK TREER'S that lack desire, track power, and brains. Some of it is training but a lot of it is GENETICS.

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Out here we own cold nosed track dogs, with brains and heart. We have to or they don't make dogs. I have dogs that can trail couple hour old coon tracks like they are looking at them, head up and will slam them up a tree or catch them on the ground. I have dogs that will cold trail grey fox, and till be able to RUN at the jump enough to pressure them to tree. Before it was made illegal, I've had dogs run 24 hour old bear tracks and tree them, and if I had not seen the track made the day before you would have thought it was red hot... Most my dogs are running and treeing by about 6-10 months old. Depends on the weather and the age they are at start of season.

I prefer older blood myself. Clover, Coma, Patch (anything Bozo) and a little shot of Lipper to add grit and some hustle.

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quote:

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Originally posted by TrackDrifter there's way to many TREE HAPPY, SLICK TREER'S that lack desire, track power, and brains. Some of it is training but a lot of it is GENETICS. [/B]

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Some of it has to do with the fact that a dog that likes to run a track fast......is going to run something that lays a track fast. Soon as people see this they lay the voltage to them and start hanging cage coons up for them. When a dog gets fried for doing anything other than treeing, sometimes treeing is all they will do

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I for sure have some that can run deer and do it right. They have cold noses too. Beyond that I don't gaurranty much. If they can't cold track and run a hot one hard and fast, they won't live here long.

Around here they better have some desire/drive, or they'll never tree a coon. TrackDrifter I'm with you, don't get me wrong I like a good tree dog but TREE DOGS now a days are a dime a dozen. Seems like every pup out of every cross now a days will look up and tree. I'll take the track minded one, that wants to go hunting, and loves to run anything that moves, over the ones that tree up every tree every 50 yards. They may start slower, and take longer to finish but the ones I've dealt with turn out to make top notch hounds.

When I turn a dog up the holler, they might have to go 700-800 yards to get after a coon, and once they hit it, chances are it's going to be a bad track so he/she must be able to work it up, so I need a dog with a good nose, and a working brain to accurately tree that coon. Them hot nosed, get through the country type dogs do tree coons but walking .7 miles up and over, and back up the other ridge get's old, especially when they passed 1 or 2 in the holler you turned them out in. Average round trip for us always seems to be well over a mile, so I'm not going to walk to many slick trees. Track Power/Brains go hand in hand!!

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Nobody said anything about takin hours to run a track. That's where the trailing ability and track power comes in. A dog that takes hours to move a track is like havin no dog at all. But dogs dont want to run a track anymore. I agree, most of em just wanna tree tree tree. If a dog has the drive and the want to run a cold track they can make pretty good time at it. I saw a dog durin bear season that demonstrated this perfectly. Sadly it wasn't one of ours, but we treed this bear at about 4 o'clock the evenin before. The bear came out and one of the back dogs just happened to get to the tree when the bear hit the ground. They caught him crossing the road on top of the mountain. Well fast forward through the night and on through the next day, me and my buddy just happened to park beside where the bear had treed (it was only 30 yards off the road) to track dogs. We watched and listened to this dog come in on the same track the bear did, circle around the tree once, and head out on the same track the bear went out on and he crossed on top of the mountain the same place the bear did the night before. 24 hour old track and he made it up in no time. He sounded like he was lookin at it the whole time. Now I don't wanna run 24 hour old coon tracks by no means unless for some reason it becomes a must, but that's what I mean by trailing ability and track drive. That dog had the desire to catch that bear even though it was wayyyyy ahead of him.

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I agree with TrackDrifter, I think the most of you have missed the point. You can have a trailing hound and it still not be a cold nosed dog.

I believe the hound Trackdrifter is referring to is that hound that goes in and strikes a track and moves it right along at a good pace, and NO OTHER dogs in the group are able to open on that track. Now its not fair to evaluate your hound as a cold trailer if all you ever hunt them with are the semi-silent dogs that some are hunting and loving today. You need to drop them with somebody's hound that is known to be able to handle a pretty cold track, and then see if this dog can still open for 10 to 20 minutes before other dogs seem to be able to open. If you have one that can do that consistently, then you (TODAY) have something pretty rare indeed!!

I had a couple back in the 70's and 80's, and have done nothing but line breed all along, cause I knew it was a rare commodity even back then and I wanted to hang on to it as long as possible. Now I have to admit my dogs today are not as cold nosed as they once were back in the 80's. My dogs hunt harder/faster today and tree just as quick if not quicker, but they do not trail for 10 to 20 minutes anymore before another dog can open on the track they are working, like they once did, they just seem to get off by themselves and get treed more frequently.

I think that is A typical for the style hound we have seen develop since the inception of the two hour competition hunt. I believe if we went back to the three hour hunt, you would see more of the trailing trait surfacing more frequently.

Anyway, thats just my opinion, and I sure am not a rocket scientist , LOL so what do I know!!, LOL Probably Nothing!

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