UKC Forums - Hunting Known mean dogs in hunts

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Posted by mike fleming on 01-21-2018 03:06 PM:

Hunting Known mean dogs in hunts

Whats your thoughts on hunting dogs in hunts that are know to be mean?I know someone in a hunt the other night he said they cut them loose then the man says don't get around him when he trees because he will bite you.Guess what fight breaks out on first tree then he wants to blame every one else.If it will bite a man you know hes gonna get any dog that get around him.

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 01-21-2018 03:17 PM:

I hunted against a very well known Dual Gr female that I went into the tree and I saw her nip at my dog, hard. I got in between them to leash my dog and she bit me, in my arm, through my jeans jacket and a flannel shirt. Brought blood. UKC has no rule for scratching for biting people. Then owner laughed and said " They were just love bites, she just doesn't like anything around her head" of course, he was the judge. He is also very well known. His spectator rolled his eyes.

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Posted by oklared on 01-21-2018 03:22 PM:

BAR, OWNER, HANDLER AND DOG

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 01-21-2018 04:39 PM:

Unfortunately....if your gonna hunt in these nite hunts best have a dog that can handle sum
"fang" pressure. Just the way it is.
Not saying every cast has one or two in it ,but sooner or later your going to run in to it . Prepare your dog to handle it . The rules will take care of "after the fact ".

Posted by harleydan1956 on 01-21-2018 05:32 PM:

It was brought up about dogs getting scratched for biting people, but the breed associations voted it down. I do believe it was last rule change. Even take a bench show judge. I have been snapped at, snarled at for " Hands on judging" and yet nothing can be said or done. Dog whisperer, you are right and it is a shame.
Youth hunts, a youth gets his dog ate up because old so and so wants his kid to win and let's him/her handle a total alligator. That is what this sport has become.
PS. I have guided and judged as many youth events as I possibly can. I have seen it all.

Posted by tony.beals on 01-21-2018 05:59 PM:

Dog biting people

HarleyDan, I'm going to go out on a limb here and maybe Allen or someone will correct me/scold me I believe you could scratch dog for interfering with the hunt/handling of your dog. If you know that dog is going to bite a handler it would give pause to handling a dog at the tree, thus interfering with hunt. You should not have to wait for the mean dogs handler to handle his dog and then handle yours.

On a side note if the **** dog bites me he is going to get it back

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 01-21-2018 06:18 PM:

Re: Dog biting people

quote:
Originally posted by tony.beals
HarleyDan, I'm going to go out on a limb here and maybe Allen or someone will correct me/scold me I believe you could scratch dog for interfering with the hunt/handling of your dog. If you know that dog is going to bite a handler it would give pause to handling a dog at the tree, thus interfering with hunt. You should not have to wait for the mean dogs handler to handle his dog and then handle yours.

On a side note if the **** dog bites me he is going to get it back

Yeah, I wanted to stomp the monkey guts out of the dog that bit me. After the fact, I was told I should have gotten a police report. Made him responsible.
But my understanding, the reason the breed associations voted it down was because some train their dogs not to allow strangers to get close to them.
As far as interference... Then , for the same reason, what recourse would a bench show judge have? I am anxious to hear from someone, but thinking it won't do any good..

Posted by JiM on 01-21-2018 06:26 PM:

Dogs biting handlers/spectators during a hunt is not covered by the rules, it is covered by law. In indiana, and I think probably every other state, a dog that bites gets confined by law and the owner is legally responsible. You explain to the handler of a dog that bites you, that you are calling the sheriff's dept right now, he will prolly be gone before the next drop. But of course no one's gonna do that. They will instead return to the clubhouse complaining to any and all about how we need a rule against biting dogs.

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 01-21-2018 06:31 PM:

Take face barking ....two dogs showing aggressive behavior....and imo interfering with one another. Yet those type of blatant display of "attempting to fight " r over looked . JMO.....as far as "pause to handle" u cant scratch a dog/ handler before only after .

Posted by harleydan1956 on 01-21-2018 06:46 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Take face barking ....two dogs showing aggressive behavior....and imo interfering with one another. Yet those type of blatant display of "attempting to fight " r over looked . JMO.....as far as "pause to handle" u cant scratch a dog/ handler before only after .

Again, you are right but I have seen MOHs allow it because neither dog was run off the tree, neither dog was bloody, that the dogs were just "jockeying for position" if they wanted to fight, nothing stopped them. Aggressive behavior, absolutely... But so many say, if you didn't see a fight, go hunt it out. I even called a MOH during the world quarter finals with 2 dogs rolled on the ground, all out fight, only 2 on the tree, but we were far enough away we didn't see it( we called because we were 1 hour 15 minutes from clubhouse) and he said hunt it out, the aggressor is not known.

Posted by tony.beals on 01-21-2018 07:07 PM:

Not perfect

Yes not perfect and the hunt it out happens a lot. Jim I can't speak for all states but I believe most are that way and yes you threaten them with that and they probably all with draw and leave. Again not perfect.

The not seeing who aggressor is happens a lot. had it happen to me twice and I know my dog was not the aggressor once had hole in his shoulder and second time had his ear ripped and I refused to scratch my 10 yr old dog (other dog looked like he would take on world when we got to him) two plott dogs, and I'm a plott guy.

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Posted by Dave Richards on 01-21-2018 08:31 PM:

Dogs biting people

When a dog bites a person, one can take civil action against the owner. Owner is responsible for their dog and can be sued for any damages caused by their dog/s. Dave

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Posted by Ralph Williams on 01-21-2018 08:35 PM:

I was on a cast one night when a very well known $kc dog started a fight on the first tree and when it let go of the downed dog the downed dog went after the $ dog and both dogs ended up scratched cause the dog defended itself! This was a $kc Hunt

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Posted by Kler Kry on 01-21-2018 08:47 PM:

Aggressive Dogs

What is the official procedure for the cast to use when it is evident that one or more dogs are showing aggressive behavior and interfering with the other dogs in the cast, but the aggressor is unknown? Does the cast proceed to the next tree before the 5 minutes are up? Do you have to wait the 5 before reaching the tree. I'd like to hear from UKC on the recommended procedure?

Posted by Bob Hennessey on 01-21-2018 10:44 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by harleydan1956
Again, you are right but I have seen MOHs allow it because neither dog was run off the tree, neither dog was bloody, that the dogs were just "jockeying for position" if they wanted to fight, nothing stopped them. Aggressive behavior, absolutely... But so many say, if you didn't see a fight, go hunt it out. I even called a MOH during the world quarter finals with 2 dogs rolled on the ground, all out fight, only 2 on the tree, but we were far enough away we didn't see it( we called because we were 1 hour 15 minutes from clubhouse) and he said hunt it out, the aggressor is not known.

2 dogs rolling on ground, they are both scratched. Rule 6b. When the aggressive dog is known, scratch the aggressor only, if not known, scratch dogs involved.

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Posted by Rip on 01-22-2018 12:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
2 dogs rolling on ground, they are both scratched. Rule 6b. When the aggressive dog is known, scratch the aggressor only, if not known, scratch dogs involved.

This is correct, they are automatically positively both scratched end of story.

The rule is FIGHTING OR attempting to fight (as defined by aggressive behavior AND interference with another dog on the cast).

Dogs fighting are scratched period. If you know the aggressor then only that dog is scratched, but if you don't know all involved are scratched. This is not a judgement call, this black and white.

If this is not done it should be immediately questioned and taken back to the clubhouse depending on the vote.

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Posted by Charles Pullen on 01-22-2018 12:27 AM:

Re: Aggressive Dogs

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
What is the official procedure for the cast to use when it is evident that one or more dogs are showing aggressive behavior and interfering with the other dogs in the cast, but the aggressor is unknown? Does the cast proceed to the next tree before the 5 minutes are up? Do you have to wait the 5 before reaching the tree. I'd like to hear from UKC on the recommended procedure?

If hear a dog fight while the 5 is running you should go straight in and find the problem.Do not wait until the 5 is up just go in . Scratch the aggressor if known . Dogs knotted up and cannot tell scratch both . Back away keep the tree time running on the 5 until tree is closed . Other dogs still should be able to be scored on that tree .

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Posted by RJ Burks on 01-22-2018 01:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Unfortunately....if your gonna hunt in these nite hunts best have a dog that can handle sum
"fang" pressure. Just the way it is.
Not saying every cast has one or two in it ,but sooner or later your going to run in to it . Prepare your dog to handle it . The rules will take care of "after the fact ".

Could you explain how to prepare your dog to handle getting eat up at the tree....

Posted by RJ Burks on 01-22-2018 01:08 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Unfortunately....if your gonna hunt in these nite hunts best have a dog that can handle sum
"fang" pressure. Just the way it is.
Not saying every cast has one or two in it ,but sooner or later your going to run in to it . Prepare your dog to handle it . The rules will take care of "after the fact ".

Could you explain how to prepare your dog to handle getting eat up at the tree....

Posted by Richard Lambert on 01-22-2018 01:11 AM:

What if they quit fighting before you get there? Three or four dogs are treed. A fight breaks out but they quit before you get there. What do you do then?

Posted by Charles Pullen on 01-22-2018 01:16 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
What if they quit fighting before you get there? Three or four dogs are treed. A fight breaks out but they quit before you get there. What do you do then?

Then just say it must have been coyotes coming in and causing the ruckus. Lol 😂

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Posted by N Williams on 01-22-2018 01:29 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by RJ Burks
Could you explain how to prepare your dog to handle getting eat up at the tree....

You can not prepare one for this. I believe it's genetic. You can't have one that starts problems however you can't have one leave because another dog goes boo at a tree. The last female I ran satin wouldn't run her off a tree but she would let other dogs tree with her. If they tried to move her she would take care of that real fast and go back to treeing. She didn't hold grudges either. She was entered in hundreds of hunts and never scratched and nothing ever ran her off. It also helps if there alone all the time. I refuse to hunt a mean dog. They either need to back off witch Is my preference or adjust fast and not hold grudges. But if your going to pound one in the hunts coontreeing female is way to go.

Posted by Dave Richards on 01-22-2018 02:40 AM:

N Williams

I agree 100% with your post. It takes a smart dog to tree with an ill dog, they learn to stay out of the way, but stand their ground. Most male dogs won't fight a female (imo) I would rather hunt a female, as you have less problems. Dave

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Posted by harleydan1956 on 01-22-2018 02:42 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
2 dogs rolling on ground, they are both scratched. Rule 6b. When the aggressive dog is known, scratch the aggressor only, if not known, scratch dogs involved.

Ok, now, keep reading. We were 60 yards away. Could hear the fight. Could hear dogs rolling, couldn't see the fight. We got there... Gone, 2 dog owners , 1 said yeah, they were fighting, other said could have been another dog come in and start it.. I stated, couldn't see them.. called MOH, that is reply...

Posted by indiana1 on 01-22-2018 03:09 AM:

How many times has someone pulled you aside after drawing out and says watch so and so he is lil rough around the tree. Problem is everyone knows including owner and nothing is ever done when it happens. They will let em withdrawl because they know them etc. that�s part of the problem. Heck I was at a rqe couple years back guy asked to ride with me said sure I had my dog tied to tailgate, man brings his dog toward truck his dog looks a mine growls and lunges pulled my dog back just in time. Moh in parking lot witnessed it and said sometimes dogs do that. I responded card is handed out dog should be scratched , man looked at me like I was crazy.

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