UKC Forums - opinions on hunting pups

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Posted by elvis on 11-21-2008 04:30 PM:

opinions on hunting pups

you have a pup (12 mnths or younger) your hunting alone and you have been treeing as many coon as anyone else thats hunting older dogs.
Now things get a little tougher. The coon have been dogged hard a couple weeks, the weather has the coon laid up, a dog has to go looking for a coon in places youd rather not be in order to tree a coon, and now your young rock star is struggling to tree one. These conditions may well prevail for the next 2 mnths.

question: do you keep hunting the pup hopeing it will learn what it has do do in order to find a coon, or do you lay the pup up untill conditions are better and easier coon are available.?

Posted by GRNT Coondawg on 11-21-2008 04:35 PM:

Marv,
I hunt the pup...kinda hard for the young dog to learn anything sitting in the pen....huntin the young dog in these conditions will tell you if you have something special or not.

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Posted by smokey7 on 11-21-2008 04:36 PM:

The harder the coon was to find the more that says for the ability of the dog that found it. Keep it real. If he's treeing as many coon as you say then hunt him. He'll find them coons if he's worth a dime. If not you didn't have anything to start with.

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Posted by nate m on 11-21-2008 04:36 PM:

elvis when ever I see anything you have written .I make sure I read it. sow I ask what do you think.

Posted by smokey7 on 11-21-2008 04:38 PM:

Sooner or later. One day. Could be the year 2050. DOg breeders and coonhunters are gonna realize being a coondog isn't about "getting treed". It's about FINDING a COON.

Posted by HOBO on 11-21-2008 04:40 PM:

I'd think you'd try to pick the nights you hunted him so you could stack the odds in your favor. I wouldn't stop hunting him all the time.. If you see that is going to be 15 tonight but tomorrow night its suppose to be the the 20's I'd wait and hunt him tomorrow night.

But what do I know?????

What does Mr. Elvis do though?

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Posted by Ron Ashbaugh on 11-21-2008 04:42 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GRNT Coondawg
Marv,
I hunt the pup...kinda hard for the young dog to learn anything sitting in the pen....huntin the young dog in these conditions will tell you if you have something special or not.

I agree, but I would do it next year......

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-21-2008 05:00 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Briar
I agree, but I would do it next year......

Marv,

I'm in the same boat....I've got a youngun that started easy, but just doesn't have the experience to hunt in four or six inches of snow. Started by running tracks and hasn't been condition to winding and tree checking that makes a great layup dog...the type that tree a lot of coon during December and January in our country...

I've decided on a happy medium. As much as I would like to hunt the pads off her feet. I realize that putting a young dog in a "winning" position is as important as anything.

I'll hunt mine a drop or two each night, and if they can't "win", then they go in the box. They will never learn to tree coon in difficult situations, unless we put them in difficult situations....however, I don't wan them to fail consistently.....

She will go for a ride in the dog box every night I go...if it's a good night, she will be hunted hard...if it's a bad night...she's a passenger!

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 11-21-2008 05:06 PM:

it depends on the conditions. if i think the coon are out, i will hunt them even if its tuff.. but if its -25 and a foot of snow i won't..if i would hunt a old dog i would hunt a young one..it got pretty cold up here last night,10 degrees with a hard frost with a high front coming in..i didn't get out till after 8:00 and was hitting very cold tracks..i was hunting my young dog (1 1/2yr old) he is normally very accurate but this is the first time he has been hunted on a hard frost.. first two tracks he fell short but as the night went on he got adjusted to the conditions and treed one then i called it quits...it was also very windy and that may have given him more problems than the frost..

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Posted by MillsEnglish on 11-21-2008 05:10 PM:

I say it would be all for the better for the young dog to struggle to find coon. It will only make it a better all around dog. Cause when they get easy in 2 months or so it will be that way maybe till next season then it will be like it is now and the dog will be a year older and a year more hardheaded.

Posted by Maniac on 11-21-2008 05:12 PM:

if im hunted a young dog. i will hunt the hair off of them. but i been known to hunt them to much. but the only way they learn is by putting them in the woods in any conditions.

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Posted by Oak Ridge on 11-21-2008 05:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by smokey7
Sooner or later. One day. Could be the year 2050. DOg breeders and coonhunters are gonna realize being a coondog isn't about "getting treed". It's about FINDING a COON.

Jason,

elvis was hunting COONDOGS while you were still crapping in diapers.

Finding a coon is only part of the equation, and until you hunt up here on a night like last night where I was...you will never understand. Turn an older experienced hound (that has done well in Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina etc) and pick that dog up four miles away...without a bark....you just are not gonna get it.

It snowed about six inches of new snow last night...and the coon simply were not out and about. They can not invent them.... They can not tree them if they have not been on the ground for 48 hours!

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Posted by Maniac on 11-21-2008 05:26 PM:

I TREE FIVE LAST NITE.

Posted by J-blotkamp on 11-21-2008 05:27 PM:

I am in the same situation as some of you have stated. Also, from the same area that some of you guys are from and know what your talking about.

My thinking is the same as Hobo's. I am going to be picky which nites I hunt my young dog. In northern Indiana it is going to be "hit or miss" from Thanksgiving on. But there will definitely be many good nites to come before season goes out.

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Posted by Casey_Lee on 11-21-2008 05:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by GRNT Coondawg
Marv,
I hunt the pup...kinda hard for the young dog to learn anything sitting in the pen....huntin the young dog in these conditions will tell you if you have something special or not.

agreed i'd do the same

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Posted by Mike Cayton on 11-21-2008 05:44 PM:

Joe, there are alot of people who think coons dont lay up when its cold , we see that here in N.C. Ive been to some of my spots over the yrs on those 20 degree nights and have hade to track dogs that left the country looking. knowing that just 2 nights ago we made 4 or 5 trees when it was in the 30s . Come back a few days later the coons are back.lol I only wish that I could find one of those Ga. dogs that get it done every night no matter what the conditions are.lol Mike

Posted by josh on 11-21-2008 06:05 PM:

We dont have snow yet, but its getting awfull cold here, some nights are just plain rough.

As long as I see improvement, Im too dumb to quit hunting them, even if I come up empty handed a few nights.

Somtimes deer get awfull tempting if the coon arent moving.

I think some dogs start hunting a little wider and faster than they should if hunted too much in these conditions.

Posted by Cry Tough Blues on 11-21-2008 06:31 PM:

Re: opinions on hunting pups

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
you have a pup (12 mnths or younger) your hunting alone and you have been treeing as many coon as anyone else thats hunting older dogs.
Now things get a little tougher. The coon have been dogged hard a couple weeks, the weather has the coon laid up, a dog has to go looking for a coon in places youd rather not be in order to tree a coon, and now your young rock star is struggling to tree one. These conditions may well prevail for the next 2 mnths.

question: do you keep hunting the pup hopeing it will learn what it has do do in order to find a coon, or do you lay the pup up untill conditions are better and easier coon are available.?

this question coming from the home of the 2007 world champion, interesting to say the least

good response there oak ridge, why would a guy like the one you are defending even care what anyone's opinion on a message board would state.

i doesnt take a genius to figure out the best hound out there won't strike anything that isnt moving, unless they are layup specialists, which you may need one if you gotta chase one hound four miles cause he hasnt hit anything yet.

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Posted by HOBO on 11-21-2008 06:34 PM:

Re: Re: opinions on hunting pups

quote:
Originally posted by Cry Tough Blues
this question coming from the home of the 2007 world champion, interesting to say the least

good response there oak ridge, why would a guy like the one you are defending even care what anyone's opinion on a message board would state.

I'm sure Elvis knows what he's going to do already,but just wanted to see what the "real coonhunters" would do.

Posted by Dan Dogs on 11-21-2008 06:40 PM:

well marv, what ya think'in about??? let him search and destroy or lay him up??? i want to know what you would do!!

Posted by Larry Atherton on 11-21-2008 08:54 PM:

We will be faced with the same decisions her soon with my son's pup
.
If she proves, she can handle it, we will hunt her. If she can't I know an old dog that I can count on to show her the ropes. Of course she is pretty darn independant. I do believe hunting a young dog alone is good, but I also believe mixing in a few nights with a tried and true cooner isn't a bad thing if it is not over done.

Dogs can and do learn by monkey see monkey do ... ya just have to becareful with what monkey ya use.

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Posted by smokey7 on 11-21-2008 10:16 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Jason,

elvis was hunting COONDOGS while you were still crapping in diapers.

Finding a coon is only part of the equation, and until you hunt up here on a night like last night where I was...you will never understand. Turn an older experienced hound (that has done well in Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee, North Carolina, South Carolina etc) and pick that dog up four miles away...without a bark....you just are not gonna get it.

It snowed about six inches of new snow last night...and the coon simply were not out and about. They can not invent them.... They can not tree them if they have not been on the ground for 48 hours!

I don't doubt elvis has many more years coonhunting than me. But the fact is you northern folks want a double standard. The only way we don't have a thin coon population is if someone is hanging a feeder and doing that way. Otherwise our dog's normally have to hunt deep. Sure we get lucky sometimes and they get struck close, but normally not. The thing is, if our dogs down south can't tree 8 single coons in a hour then there just cull mutts. But if you northern guys dog's hunt 4 miles and don't strike a coon there it was just a bad night. The double standard with yall amazes me.

Posted by elvis on 11-21-2008 10:21 PM:

Re: Re: opinions on hunting pups

quote:
Originally posted by Cry Tough Blues
this question coming from the home of the 2007 world champion, interesting to say the least

good response there oak ridge, why would a guy like the one you are defending even care what anyone's opinion on a message board would state.

i doesnt take a genius to figure out the best hound out there won't strike anything that isnt moving, unless they are layup specialists, which you may need one if you gotta chase one hound four miles cause he hasnt hit anything yet.

A lot of what little I do know about dogs and coonhunting I have learned from others. The rest I learned the hard way and looking back some of it could have been avoided had I only listened to what others had told me.There are some on here whos opinion I value and apreciate.

Just because ive been lucky enough to get my hands on a couple good ones that made me look like I knew what I was doing certainly doesn't mean that Im incapable of learning from others.
Very rarely do I hunt with someone that has been in this game awhile that I cant pick up some helpful tidbits on training coondogs. Every one has a few gems tucked away that might help me.

I have over the years flip flopped my opinion on this subject of wheather to hunt or not to hunt a pup when conditions get tuff.
I used to think I needed to hunt it in all conditions to make it the best it can be. If it was gonna run junk when it couldnt find a coon I wanted to know it and get it broke. If it didnt hunt deep enough I would work on that. If it treed empty too much in those conditions Id try to correct it.

I then gradualy changed my thinking to I was asking too much from an imature hound in poor conditions and there was just no way the pup was gonna look good no matter how hard it tried. There is just no substitute for age in most pups ability to develop its God given talents into a mature coondog. I thought I could do the pup better by hunting it late at nite when it would get after some bad tracks instead of hunting it when there were no tracks.

A buddy and I have been discussing this the past week. We are hunting littermates that turned a yr old last week and have been treeing coon alone for several months but now that the weather and coon have been getting tougher, they are struggling. I just wondered what the opinions of otheres on this board were on this particular subject. Thanks for the replys.

Posted by smokey7 on 11-21-2008 10:24 PM:

Elvis I wasn't directing my comment at you and I wish you the best with the pup. I would hunt him. But that's just my opinion.

Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 11-21-2008 10:24 PM:

we are in differnt regions but the snow is the only fourm
of moisture we have got and critters were moving last
night. 5-6 inches me and the pup both will stay home.

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