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Competition Hunting, Good or Bad?

Has competition sq and coon hunting been good for the Cur dog breeds, or has it been bad for them? Has the cur dogs protective nature been bred out of them for the sport of comp hunting? If we don't watch what we do, we will end up with a bunch of man shy Champs on our hands.

been good ,and fun, and good and fun.

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Home of UKC nch,trch,bch,sqch;UMCA grtch,grnch,grbch;NKC sqch,trch,bch ;2011 UKC Alabama State Reserve SQCH,
NCFBA World Reserve Tree Champion 2011
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UKC trch,grbch,grsqch,grnitech
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I think the answer lies in the people that are breeding the dogs. Some think you need a dog that will blow out of pocket to tree a squirrel. Myself I like a dog more like a pleasure type dog like they were originally meant to be.

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L.H. & Curt Ladner Blackmouth Curs in Michigan

I have no use for a protective dog. I understand where they could be useful but not my house.

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Check out my web site at http://treelukekennels.com/

It's the Mt. Cur breed of Cur dogs, that has been harmed the most by comp hunting. Mt. Curs of today are no longer the do it all dogs that they once were. Now of days, if you want a real Mt. Cur you have to get you a Blackmouth Cur and dock it's tail.

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Originally posted by fdm
It's the Mt. Cur breed of Cur dogs, that has been harmed the most by comp hunting. Mt. Curs of today are no longer the do it all dogs that they once were. Now of days, if you want a real Mt. Cur you have to get you a Blackmouth Cur and dock it's tail.

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Check out my web site at http://treelukekennels.com/

i have mt curs competion hunt both of them both are grntch in ukc.and the old dog trees squirrel excellent so how are they screwed up sounds like you havent hunted with a good one.thanks ron

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TREEDAWG KENNELS

GRCH GRNTCH CARGILLS JEWELL

Most people use the term "protective" to cover up mean. I have one that is "protective", he runs loose around my house and if he don't know you you better leave him alone. If he backs up to the front door you better stop right there and if he gets between my wife and you you better stay right where you are if he knows you or not. Now how is that an asset to the breed? Personally if it wasn't for the fact that he kills everything that messes with my stock I would have done away with him a long time ago.

I have a 5 down in the kennel that will also stop anything from messing with my stock, all of them can and do tree their own squirrel and coon well, one is a SpGrSqChNtCh. Which one would you rather have?

In the end though you have to ask yourself, are you looking to preserve the breed or improve the breed. Many Comp hunters want to in their eyes improve the breed which will change some of the characteristics of the breed. Mainly by breeding on certain traits and letting others fall by the side.
If the old time Mt. Cur dog is to be saved, I think it will be the Kemmer strain of Mt. Curs that will do it. but it's up to todays Kemmer breeders to keep the Kemmer line of Cur dogs protective nature. I know there a few folks in the OMCBA that want to preserve the breed, but most seem like they want show dogs.

fdm i hunt kemmer curs my one female is protective at the house a stranger wont take her out her kennel i can tell you that much but at the hunts she likes everybody.thanks ron

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TREEDAWG KENNELS

GRCH GRNTCH CARGILLS JEWELL

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Originally posted by fdm
In the end though you have to ask yourself, are you looking to preserve the breed or improve the breed. Many Comp hunters want to in their eyes improve the breed which will change some of the characteristics of the breed. Mainly by breeding on certain traits and letting others fall by the side.
If the old time Mt. Cur dog is to be saved, I think it will be the Kemmer strain of Mt. Curs that will do it. but it's up to todays Kemmer breeders to keep the Kemmer line of Cur dogs protective nature. I know there a few folks in the OMCBA that want to preserve the breed, but most seem like they want show dogs.

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Todd Gibson
Enterprise, AL

"In 1957 the Mountain Cur Club (later renamed the OMCBA) was started in an effort to preserve the Original Mountain Cur breed. From this stock many different lines were bred and registries started. The UMCA was formed in an effort to bring these dogs and their owners back together! This improves the gene pool by allowing crosses of the various bloodlines (Original Mountain Cur, Stephens Cur, Kemmer Cur, Mtn View Cur, etc...) to be registered. It also provides a friendly place for members to compete in buddy hunts, competition hunts, bench shows and treeing contests, or to just hang out and talk dogs!" The quote is from the home page of the United Mountain Cur Association. The part of the quote where they say " improves the gene pool by allowing crosses of the various bloodlines (Original Mountain Cur, Stephens Cur, Kemmer Cur, Mtn View Cur, etc...) to be registered." just makes me sick. Start mixing the bloodlines, and it want take long for the true old time Mt. Cur to become a thing of the past

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa ! How long have you been hunting Curs? This mixing you are talking about....The Stephens dogs were originally registered in the OMCBA and pulled out and started their own registry. The Kemmer dogs were originally registered with the OMCBA and pulled out and started their own registry. The Mt. View Cur was originally a Kemmer bred dog that started their own registry.

So how is this mixing bloodlines? Looks like to me they are just putting blood back in that was in originally.

For the record, I'm not a member of the UMCA.

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If It Climbs, It Ain't Trash

quote:

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Originally posted by fdm
"In 1957 the Mountain Cur Club (later renamed the OMCBA) was started in an effort to preserve the Original Mountain Cur breed. From this stock many different lines were bred and registries started. The UMCA was formed in an effort to bring these dogs and their owners back together! This improves the gene pool by allowing crosses of the various bloodlines (Original Mountain Cur, Stephens Cur, Kemmer Cur, Mtn View Cur, etc...) to be registered. It also provides a friendly place for members to compete in buddy hunts, competition hunts, bench shows and treeing contests, or to just hang out and talk dogs!" The quote is from the home page of the United Mountain Cur Association. The part of the quote where they say " improves the gene pool by allowing crosses of the various bloodlines (Original Mountain Cur, Stephens Cur, Kemmer Cur, Mtn View Cur, etc...) to be registered." just makes me sick. Start mixing the bloodlines, and it want take long for the true old time Mt. Cur to become a thing of the past

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Todd Gibson
Enterprise, AL

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Originally posted by TOP
Are you drunk?

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Hunt Plotts.......

i guess that wraps it up boys.ps i like my kemmer dogs too.thanks ron

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TREEDAWG KENNELS

GRCH GRNTCH CARGILLS JEWELL

and southern knight is our newest kool-aid drinker....

if you have proof of your accusations, then by all means provide them to the BOD. If the proof is there, then I bet some action will be taken. Now if you're just running your bottle-washer, like I think you are, then no, nothing will be done.

as for the ksba....they can't even follow their own rules....and anyone who disagrees with them gets kicked out on trumped up charges....and that's a fact.

I hunt the kemmer strain of original mtn cur....that's all I hunt...started with kemmers back when the ksba first started. Some hunters had the forethought to keep up their omcba papers as well as their ksba papers, thank GOD.

As for the heavy streak bred line of mtn curs....I don't have the knowledge to talk on one way or the other, but I do know that ole Streak whooped just about everything he was put in the woods with.....including my favorite kemmers.

As for Mr. Ledbetter, he was an OMCBA man from start to finish....and my dawgs look just like his....

The leadership of the ksba brought all their troubles on themselves....if they need to know who to blame...tell 'em to look in the mirror....

Now go back to your kool-aid drinking or you'll end up the laughing stock of the whole mtn cur world, just like the ksba is....

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Todd Gibson
Enterprise, AL

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Originally posted by Southern Knight
Are some of you OMCBA boys drunk is a question I would like to hear answered? I bought some pups a few years ago from the president of the OMCBA and the biggest one got to a whopping 31 pounds, if all you boys want to talk about who is drunk whay has the OMCBA dogs changed so much sine I went to Tennessee as a kid & bought dog from Mr. Ledbetter himself. He told me & I quote " He would kill a pup with stand up pointed ears" but I see them all over the OMCBA today. You & everyone on here knows Carl Smith's Streak dog was at the very least 1/2 fiest but yet every one in the OMCBA chooses to ignore it, now who is a drunk? Have you personally done anything about this knowledge as a member of the OMCBA? I really wanted some more dogs like I got from my Pa when I went & got them but after hundred's of dollars in calls to Cur Dog men, I found out why my dogs turned out to be 22, 26 & 31 pounds and all 3 were from different females. All were sired by Smith's Streak the "WORLD CHAMPION" and not a single one met the bred standard of YOUR MOUNTAIN CUR CLUB!!! Then I got to checking into how the OMCBA worked and accually ran into a guy in the delta one morning who was on the board at one time for the OMCBA & Then I found out how these same people get in & stay in office there.

There is no way I will ever give the OMCBA 1 dime of my money as a member I have absoultly NO, Notta, ZERO vote in who is President of the Assn. The President has total control over everything & HIS BOARD ELECTS HIM NOT THE MEMBERSHIP. I have read this junk for years on here about you boys beef with the Kemmer guys & yet you go to Jamestown & put up with a hell of alot more communism than the KSBA ever laid out there. I joined the KSBA after a trip back to Tennessee several months ago to get some pups, these pups I got from Robert Kemmer are top of the line & I bayed 3 hogs Saturday with (2) 7 month old pups alone and one was born at Mr. Kemmer's house & the other was born at a Hog hunters house up there in the mountains about 25 miles down the road from Mr. Kemmer. You can stick with the OMC & not ever getting a voice on who is running your club & disreguarding breed standards in size, color, & ect.... & I'll stick to my 55 pound yellow dew clawed pups that look, act, sound & hunt like the dogs my Pa got from Mr. Ledbetter when I was a kid in the 1960's......

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quote:

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Originally posted by nccatfisher
I guess you think the president of the OMCBA is the only one that has Mountain Curs? My males run 45-60# and my females run 40-55#, if you think the KSBA can keep breeding the integrity of dogs by chain breeding than buy all of 'em you want. You will get what you deserve.

BTW
Stick with the KSBA and see how much voice you have about how it is run. If you don't bow to the leader like the flock you will be on the outside lookin' in. LOL

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Todd Gibson
Enterprise, AL

HAHAHA IF HE EVER GIVES HIS 2CENTS HE WILL BE KICKED OUT IN A HURRY. UNLESS THE KSBA PRESIDENT CHARLES FOFO TRYES TO MAKE HIM GET ON ONE OF THESE BOARDS AND SAY HOW GREAT THE KSBA AND MR. KEMMER ARE THEN HE WILL BE THE KING .......LOL....LOL. HE ASK ME TO AND HE WOULD FORGIVE THE THINGS I SAID.LOL.LOL ALL I DONE WAS TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT SOME PAPERS I GOT FROM THE KSBA THAT WERE FALSE AS THE DRIVEN SNOW.

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donny bennett

quote:

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Originally posted by Southern Knight
Are some of you OMCBA boys drunk is a question I would like to hear answered? I bought some pups a few years ago from the president of the OMCBA and the biggest one got to a whopping 31 pounds, if all you boys want to talk about who is drunk whay has the OMCBA dogs changed so much sine I went to Tennessee as a kid & bought dog from Mr. Ledbetter himself. He told me & I quote " He would kill a pup with stand up pointed ears" but I see them all over the OMCBA today. You & everyone on here knows Carl Smith's Streak dog was at the very least 1/2 fiest but yet every one in the OMCBA chooses to ignore it, now who is a drunk? Have you personally done anything about this knowledge as a member of the OMCBA? I really wanted some more dogs like I got from my Pa when I went & got them but after hundred's of dollars in calls to Cur Dog men, I found out why my dogs turned out to be 22, 26 & 31 pounds and all 3 were from different females. All were sired by Smith's Streak the "WORLD CHAMPION" and not a single one met the bred standard of YOUR MOUNTAIN CUR CLUB!!! Then I got to checking into how the OMCBA worked and accually ran into a guy in the delta one morning who was on the board at one time for the OMCBA & Then I found out how these same people get in & stay in office there.

There is no way I will ever give the OMCBA 1 dime of my money as a member I have absoultly NO, Notta, ZERO vote in who is President of the Assn. The President has total control over everything & HIS BOARD ELECTS HIM NOT THE MEMBERSHIP. I have read this junk for years on here about you boys beef with the Kemmer guys & yet you go to Jamestown & put up with a hell of alot more communism than the KSBA ever laid out there. I joined the KSBA after a trip back to Tennessee several months ago to get some pups, these pups I got from Robert Kemmer are top of the line & I bayed 3 hogs Saturday with (2) 7 month old pups alone and one was born at Mr. Kemmer's house & the other was born at a Hog hunters house up there in the mountains about 25 miles down the road from Mr. Kemmer. You can stick with the OMC & not ever getting a voice on who is running your club & disreguarding breed standards in size, color, & ect.... & I'll stick to my 55 pound yellow dew clawed pups that look, act, sound & hunt like the dogs my Pa got from Mr. Ledbetter when I was a kid in the 1960's......

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If It Climbs, It Ain't Trash

In Early in 1991 after Dave Glazebrook had been kicked out of the OMCBA, he needed somewhere to register his dogs so he talked Robert Kemmer, who at the time was complaining of the recent price increase on litter registrations, into forming the KSBA as it is known today. It was started on September 26, 1991.

According to the KSBA history, The Kemmer Stock Mtn.Cur Breeders Assoc. is made up of interested persons wanting to breed and work for the betterment and preservation of the Kemmer Stock Mtn.Cur in general. Any registered Mtn.Cur of the Original Mtn.Cur
Breeders Association can be registered. There doesn't have to be any Kemmer Stock Blood in a dog to register them with the KSBA. We welcome everyone willing to abide by the constitution and by-laws. Folks were never told at some point in time that they would become second rate members for owning dogs that didn't have the Kemmer blood but what happened they could have never imagined.

The KSBA grew into a very large organization where the hunts were packed. Folks had to park out on the roadway and walk down to the clubhouse. It was the best thing going and people were able to hunt any Mtn Cur they owned no matter how it was bred as long as it was registered with the KSBA. Around 2000, some of the Kemmer owners/breeders got tired to getting beat by the other strains of Mtn Curs at their Kemmer hunts. So a vote was taken at the Spring Hunt of 2001 for the members present to see if they only wanted Kemmer dogs with at least 75% Kemmer blood in them to hunt in the Kemmer World Hunt. The vote passed 27 to 20. The green papered dogs, dogs with less than 75% Kemmer blood in their breeding, came about out of that vote and that was the beginning of the demise for the KSBA. Members were originally asked to registered their dogs with the KSBA in order to get it going, not to mention help fund the start of the organization. Now these members were considered second rate because of their dog's breeding. All dogs and their owners were equal up to this point.

That vote took place and was implemented not by the constitution. It wasn't ever voted on by the BOD, just talked about. Then when the members voted it wasn't a 2/3 pass. The new rule was what they called a gentleman's agreement. It never was put into a yearbook until 2005. Members became bitter and some even threatened law suits. Numbers in the membership and participation at the hunts started to fall. The KSBA fell victim to jokes and members were slurred. Robert Kemmer was quoted as saying he didn't care, if they only had enough members show up at a hunt to have a good fish fry, that would satisfy him.

In 2004, the next rule was implemented that when you breed a pair of KSBA registered dogs, one of them had to be at least 75% Kemmer blood in order to raise the percentage in the green papered dogs so that one day they would all be phased out. At that point, members should have realized they were out to breed dogs instead of hunt them even though they support organized hunts yearly.

The new breeding rule brought on more and more dissatisfaction with the members. The BODs were seeing opposition from the members to allow the green papered dogs to hunt in the World Hunt since the original vote was actually illegal. Many of them brought that up at their meetings where they were faced with problems. They asked to have the entire membership have a vote on it and do it the correct way. Some of the left wing BODs thought this was going to lead to opening back up the Registry, breeding any way you wanted and so worth. They used that as scare tactics to mislead other members. At the 2006 Fall KSBA meeting in Dayton, TN, the motion was brought up again to have the member vote on it. Robert, who attends all BOD meetings as a “special advisor”, was quoted as he didn't care about the green papered dogs and would kill them all if given the chance. He was also quoted at the same time as saying “I don’t give a **** about the members. Members present at that meeting brought up that they want to vote to have the BODs look into letting the members vote. It was voted on in the general meeting and passed with a large majority. This sparked Robert Kemmer to make another move no one saw coming.

Green papered dogs weren’t disappearing fast enough for some of them so Robert branched off from the KSBA to start the 100% True Kemmers Registry. When asked why he did that, I just wanted to keep some of the pure stuff around before it went existent. With all the 100% dogs in the United States how in the world would he think they were going existent?

The internet message boards became the avenue for discussion the topics within the KSBA. Post became heated and tempers flared. Name calling began, folks started talking about others dogs, and breeding practices began to be one of the hot topics. People were voicing their opinions and for some reason that didn't set right with Robert and his partners. The hunters in the organization were selling puppies right and left mainly due to the fact that the internet informed buyers who was winning hunts, who was posting pictures with tailgates covered with game, and who was actually hunting their dogs. Robert Kemmer was quoted as saying he couldn't sell a puppy. He, along with his breeding partners, began running ads in Full Cry like never before. Ad after ad appeared in issue after issue. They had pens full of puppies and no buyers. This was getting their attention as well as taking money out of their pockets.

Late in 2006 word was out that the hunting members, actually the ones selling puppies, were about to be kicked out for voicing their opinions. Members, BODs, and even the Registrar quit the association on their own terms saying they didn't want to be associated with an organization that didn't give a **** about it's members, opposed them expressing their 5th amendment right by voicing their opinions, and putting down the small game hunters because that's not what Robert spent his entire life developing these dogs to hunt as they were told.

These controversial members started getting kicked off of web sites for mentioning the Gestapo leadership that the KSBA had developed into and exposing the ones that were railroading the organization. They weren't allowed to become a member of the newly formed Kemmer Message board. So www.kemmerhaters.net & www.ksbaexposed.com was formed to allow the public to ask questions and get real answers as well as allow members and ex-members to voice their opinions as needed. Make yourself at home and enjoy

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donny bennett

WOULD YOU LIKE GRAPE OR FRUITPUNCH DRINK ON MY FRIEND DRINK ON

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donny bennett

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Originally posted by nccatfisher
if you think the KSBA can keep breeding the integrity of dogs by chain breeding than buy all of 'em you want. You will get what you deserve.

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Hunt Plotts.......

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Originally posted by Southern Knight
Who does this chain breeding, While I was up there getting pups I hunted with 3 of the 4 parents of the pups I bought. The forth has been dead for a couple years & the pups were off his seman. Mr. Kemmer was a very nice man & his cousin Mitch was guiding a hog hunt for a guy from Mississippi that morning & he took 2 of the parents with him, they left in a dead run & trailed the hog about 35 minutes & bayed it, the hunter & Mitch went to the 2 dogs & killed a very nice hog on open land, I'll say that's some chain breeding, that night I went to the other guys house & he & his sons were getting ready to go on a coon hunt, I tagged along & they treed 3 in about 45 minutes, we had to walk a pretty piece to the last tree & the female was up on all 3 trees & coon were in all 3 of them. You guys get on here & blow this junk & you don't have a clue what is going on. Mr. Kemmer told me when I called he didn't hunt very much anymore because of his poor health but his son (Roy I think) his grandson & nephew? Mitch would show me the parents, he had some more dogs over at a guy's house being hunted & Mr. Burgess was fixing to start some young dogs for him to be proved out in the woods. He told me that he has several young dogs farmed out while I was up there. All you guys say these lies about people & make yourself look like a idiot to someone just getting into this sport. You get on here & say the dogs are chain bred dog & I call the man himself & he says come go hunting so who looks like the liar to someone on the outside? Then I read all your garbage about the KSBA Gastopo tatics garbage then I finf out you OMCBA don't even let you vote for the president, talk about gastopo! Then I look on here at a OMCBA BOD flaunting a 22 pound dog saying she is OMCBA Registered & No one will evr pull her papers..... Looks to me like you bunch of idiots are the ones with a liking for Kool Aid.

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