UKC Forums - .POLL.........how do y'all feel???

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-- .POLL.........how do y'all feel??? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=296280)

Posted by coon dawg on 08-27-2009 04:42 PM:

.POLL.........how do y'all feel???

guide drops you on ground he KNOWS he doesn't have permission on....you get caught and all ticketed.......should UKC take action??????

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Posted by David McKee on 08-27-2009 04:49 PM:

What action did the club take ?

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Posted by coon dawg on 08-27-2009 04:58 PM:

.............

quote:
Originally posted by David McKee
What action did the club take ?

...in this hypothetical situation...............let's say they barred the guy from guiding again...........in another, let's say they did nothing.............I'd vote the same either way............... I THINK I see what you're getting at.................club problem, not UKC's????????

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Posted by Todd K / UKC on 08-27-2009 05:34 PM:

How do you prove that he knew he didn't have permission? Seems like that could get messy? What if he thought he had permission? I can think of situations where that could be the case. Just seems hard to prove that he knew he didn't.

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Posted by coon dawg on 08-27-2009 05:58 PM:

..............

quote:
Originally posted by todd kellam
How do you prove that he knew he didn't have permission? Seems like that could get messy? What if he thought he had permission? I can think of situations where that could be the case. Just seems hard to prove that he knew he didn't.

......again.......hypothetical...............let's say he definitely knew he didn't have permission and admitted it later...........

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Posted by robgregory on 08-27-2009 06:05 PM:

I've got written

permission to coonhunt a pretty good size tract of land in Southampton County,Va. My girlfriend's works for the guy who owns it.Well, the guy she works for deer hunts with a club right down the road and this club also deer hunts this property.I was in there coonhuntin' one night and one of the club's top members saw my truck parked there,so he decides to call the law.You should've seen the look on his face when I produced my written permission to the Game Warden.I know that he turned 5 shades of redin about 2 seconds.Ended up,the guy gave my girlfriend's boss a bunch of crap for giving me permission to coonhunt it.It was ridiculous.I can't tell you on here what he told the guy.LOL!!
ROB GREGORY

PUNGO FERRY ENGLISH KENNELS
VIRGINIA BEACH,VIRGINIA

Posted by on 08-27-2009 06:21 PM:

I don't see how this is a UKC problem, unless it is a repeated issue.

I would simply expect the club to discipline the individual... loss of guiding priveledges for 1 year minimum, probation for 2 years. This is of course, if the cast unanimously agrees that the guide knowingly put the cast in a woods without permission.

I know a few that don't worry about taking a UKC cast to ground where they shouldn't be, hoping to score a quick tree and get out of there.

Posted by jackbob42 on 08-27-2009 07:25 PM:

Did UKC pick the guide?

Do we really need UKC to hold our hands all the time?

I'm man enough to never allow him to guide at my club again , and let all close clubs know what happened and who it was.

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Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
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Posted by on 08-27-2009 09:14 PM:

Around these parts it is common to guide casts on ground that the owners isn't even known. Every region is different.

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 08-27-2009 09:47 PM:

There was one of those guys here but i think he sold all his dogs and quit last time i drew him i said if i did again i was going to withdraw

Posted by Casey_Lee on 08-27-2009 10:26 PM:

this is not a hypotheical situation. it has happened before and will happen again. i can see in no way shape form or fashion how UKC should be held responsible for such cases.

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Posted by Keith Hodge on 08-28-2009 12:27 AM:

Jim that is a bad answer. If you dont know the owner buy a platt a get permission.

Posted by intellectualist on 08-28-2009 01:02 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Keith Hodge
Jim that is a bad answer. If you dont know the owner buy a platt a get permission.

Here is my 2 cents. Where I live, there is absolutely no way under the sun that you are going to turn a dog loose and not have to get off on someones property that you do not know. I can't even imagine being somewhere that I could turn loose and stay on the same property owner.
The only way to do that around here is to hunt game land every night you turn loose!
How is that possible guys even where you live?
The only thing I can say is if this guide dropped a cast out on land that was posted in a manner to reasonably come to someones attention and he knew that and had no permission, then he was totally in the wrong!
How many of you guys actually have hunting ground other than game land, that you honestly believe you can make a 1-2 hour hunt on and fully believe you will not get on someone you do not have permission from or even know who owns it for that matter?

Posted by Keith Hodge on 08-28-2009 01:40 AM:

He is saying that he guides them there not they accidentally end up there two totally different things

Posted by jackbob42 on 08-28-2009 01:51 AM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by intellectualist

How many of you guys actually have hunting ground other than game land, that you honestly believe you can make a 1-2 hour hunt on and fully believe you will not get on someone you do not have permission from or even know who owns it for that matter?

I know that I can with my dogs.
Can't say that about dogs that blow through the country for a mile or 2 before they start hunting though.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

Posted by Clint Welsh on 08-28-2009 02:03 AM:

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
I know that I can with my dogs.
Can't say that about dogs that blow through the country for a mile or 2 before they start hunting though.

That's exactly what I was thinking. To many dogs being bred to go deep. Go deep if you have to but, they better be hunting on their way.

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Posted by coon hunter on 08-28-2009 07:55 AM:

UKC

shouldn't do anything. It is the clubs responsibilty to provide the guides and the clubs responsibilty to take action, if any is taken at all. Take it before the club and let them handle it.

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Tree my dog.

What happened to that coons tail?

Looks like all its hair fell out.

Posted by coon dawg on 08-28-2009 10:53 AM:

...............

...........well...............this has brought up some interesting discussion, anyway...............I'm of the opinion it is not a UKC problem.............but a club problem............I agree with what jackbob42 said..........bar him at your club's level..............nobody wants to pay a trespassing fine that isn't thier fault............intellectualist........it says Asheville below your name.............Asheville NC???.......if so, there are HUGE hunks of govt. land up there you can hunt........???????????????......................ps-interesting that right now less than 30% say that UKC should do nothing.........

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Posted by DarkMan on 08-28-2009 11:32 AM:

I don't think a life ban is in order but maybe somewhere along the lines were as he should be responsible for the cost of the tickets before he or his dogs are able to attend a UKC sanctioned event.

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Posted by ncbbluedavid on 08-28-2009 01:25 PM:

NO PERMISSION

A FEW YEARS A GO I WAS WORKING A HUINT AT A CLUB THE CAST TURNED OUT WHERE THE GUIDE TOOK THEM DOGS STRUCK AND TREED CAST GOES TO SCORE TREE COME BACK AND FIND TWO OF THE TRUCKS HAVE BEEN TOWED TO INPOUND YARD AND THE POLICE IS SETTING THERE WATING FOR A TOW TRUCK TO GET THE THIRD ONE ALL OF THESE GUYS HAD TO PAY A TOW BILL AND A TICKET THE CLUB WONT LET THIS MAN GUIDE ANY MORE . GUIDES ARE TO GET AT SOME CLUBS AND YOU HAVE TO TRUST PEOPLE IF THE CLUB HAS PROBLEMS THEY DONT NEED TO US THE PERSON ANY MORE .I THANK THESE THINGS HAVE TO BE HANDELED ON A CLUB LEVEL.

Posted by coon dawg on 08-28-2009 02:05 PM:

.............

quote:
Originally posted by Keith Hodge
He is saying that he guides them there not they accidentally end up there two totally different things

................exactly.............we are not talking about dogs getting off property you HAVE permission on by going deep.........................we are talking about a guide intentionally turning loose on ground he KNOWS he doesn't have permission to hunt.............

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Posted by SFWALKER on 08-28-2009 03:43 PM:

If this is a problem at your club simply write up a contract for the guide to sign saying that they will only be casting on land with permission, and that they assume responsibility for any violations and must pay any and all fines given to any members of the cast.

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Posted by Frank M on 08-28-2009 03:55 PM:

I voted

I voted do nothing, as I like only 25% of the rest of the folks believe there is nothing UKC can do. I think it should be handled at a club level.

Now I have been in a cast where upon returning to the trucks we find a note on the windshild that says we don't have permission to hunt this land. When in acutalality we did the land owner didn't tell her son and he was the one that wrote the note. It did take a 45 minute phone call to get it all strightend out thou.

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Posted by intellectualist on 08-28-2009 11:05 PM:

Re: ...............

quote:
Originally posted by coon dawg
...........well...............this has brought up some interesting discussion, anyway...............I'm of the opinion it is not a UKC problem.............but a club problem............I agree with what jackbob42 said..........bar him at your club's level..............nobody wants to pay a trespassing fine that isn't thier fault............intellectualist........it says Asheville below your name.............Asheville NC???.......if so, there are HUGE hunks of govt. land up there you can hunt........???????????????......................ps-interesting that right now less than 30% say that UKC should do nothing.........

Read my post again sir!!!!!!!!!!! Let me put a bunch of exclamation points in there like you did question marks!!! I plainly said that game land around here was the only place I knew of that you could make a decent hunt without getting on someone where it may matter.
If you like hunting rock cliffs and places where three other trucks are already parked then go for it!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by intellectualist on 08-28-2009 11:16 PM:

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
I know that I can with my dogs.
Can't say that about dogs that blow through the country for a mile or 2 before they start hunting though.

Lets go with this statement for a second. We may be talking about two different types of hunting here. I am refering to hunting a creek or a "branch" and if nothing is struck, using some shoe leather and walking a half mile to the next branch and let the dogs hunt it out and then walking even further to the next one and so on until you are done hunting while the dogs are hunting 20-30 minutes and checking in every so often. You could not give me a dog that blows through the country.
I think maybe you are referring to hunting places where you just drop the dog and let him check for a bit and when he comes back you load him or if he don't, go to the tree. I have a few places like that for sure, but even then if the dog hits a hard running coon, he will be off that property in no time.
Are you saying your dogs have never treed off the property you are talking about and onto someone else, ever? They must have never hit any hard running coons then!

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