UKC Forums - new rules let's discuss likes and dislikes

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »
Show all 58 posts from this thread on one page

UKC Forums (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/index.php)
- Black & Tans (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=47)
-- new rules let's discuss likes and dislikes (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928332048)

Posted by shawnstovall on 08-07-2013 07:08 PM:

new rules let's discuss likes and dislikes

what ones do you like and which ones you don't like.
i like rule number 2 and rule number 4
i wish they would change rule 6 to read 15 continue min. instead of consecutive min. and the dog must at get treed before this time is off.

UKC Coonhound Rules Proposals 2013
__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 2. POINT SYTEM:

1.) Change available tree position points to:
(b). 125 points for dog declared treed first, 75 points second, 50 points third, 25 points fourth. After one minute second tree position is not available. After two minutes, third tree position is not available. The only position available after two minutes is fourth tree position.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 4. POINTS WILL BE MINUS:

2.) Eliminate (d) and change (g) to:
(g). Dog treeing, but not declared treed, when judges arrives, will be awarded next available tree position. In the case of two or more dogs split tree points are awarded. Those strike and tree points will be minused, regardless of how the tree is scored. Dogs shut out on strike to receive minus tree points only.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
3.) Eliminate Rule 5b and add to Rule 4:
Any dog(s) coming into a tree, after the judge arrives, to receive its strike points minused, regardless of how tree is scored. If dog is shut out refer to Rule 3(d).

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 5. CIRCLED AND DELETED POINTS:

4.) Add to deleted points section:
If a majority is not reached to plus, minus or circle strike and tree points, when scoring trees and a hunting judge is used.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 6. DOGS WILL BE SCRATCHED:

5.) Implement time period for dog not hunting to:
(d) Failing to make any attempt to hunt within any 15 consecutive scorecard minutes. Time is temporarily paused when time out is called or if dog is leashed at a tree but it then continues when dog is recast. A dog must be gone for five minutes or be declared struck before time is lifted.

6.) Add rule to cover dog aggression towards cast members as follows:
If dog shows aggression towards any cast member.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 8. TIME OUTS:

7.) Remove (c) and replace with:
When all dogs in cast are on leash and have been scored.

8.) Remove (i) and replace with:
If all dogs are declared treed or on leash time out shall be called after 10 minutes of hunt time has been used walking to split tree(s). Time is back in during shining time or if dog leaves tree.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 11. HANDLERS AND JUDGES:

9.) After rule stating: {Where dogs split up Judge will go} etc. add sentence:
If all dogs are declared treed and handled, cast may score trees in most convenient order.

10.) Change rule: {Permission will be given for other handlers to go to their dogs on split tree} to:
Judge may give handler permission to handle dog on a split tree unless cast is in the process of shining or scoring tree.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 16. TIES:

11.) Change tie-breaker rules to:
All ties to be broken as follows:
1) The dog that has the most plus first tree points.
2) If still a tie, the dog that has the least number of total minus points.
3) If still a tie, the dog that has the most plus strike points.
4) If still a tie, the dog that has the most circle tree points.
5) If still a tie, the dog that has the most circle strike points
6) If still a tie, dogs involved with hunt in one hour intervals until tie is broken, or flip a coin if all parties agree.

__________________________________________________
_________________________________
Rule 17. GENERAL INFORMATION

12.) Replace rule that states: {spectators may not shine the tree} with:
Spectators may not shine the tree, unless, all handlers in cast agree. However, spectators are not included in the majority required to score trees and shall have no part in any scoring discrepancies.
__________________________________________________
_________________________________

__________________
shawn stovall
wyandotte, ok
shawnstovall2001@yahoo.com
918-961-2434
Home to:
Pr S&J's Shack's Backwoods Patches (walker)
'PR' Stovall's Black Knight Wild Willy
Past Home to:
dual grand stovall's black knight george (gone but not forgotten)
pr D&S' black little luke (1st and 3rd place wins) (davis black luke x paynes black june) gone but not forgotten
Dual Grand Davis' black hutch (gone but not forgotten)

Posted by Randy Tallon on 08-07-2013 07:54 PM:

People are upset about babbling dogs piling up points.....150 first tree and leave the rest as they are.

__________________
UKC GrNtCh PKC Ch Pa HTX Sniper (Deceased) Four time qualified for World Championship
Duane and Seth Jones/Jarret Davis partners
Beaver River Kennels/Team Pa
USAF proud!!! 6 Years active 19 Reserves MSgt (ret) Raven 457
Carpe Nocturnum-Seize the night!

Posted by jeff thomley on 08-07-2013 08:38 PM:

I like the count down on a tree for sure it is used in the other *kc hunts and it works , it puts a gap between a dog that's does his job and one that runs around backing dogs . In akc if a dog is struck under the minute it has to get treed b4 the minute is up or minused . I like that rule as well

__________________
jeff thomley

Csg Pkc ch grch grnite coopers stormin Ike
2017 top 10 reproducer, top 5 per sire
2016 top 10 reproducer,top 5 perf sire

2015 perf sire- top 10 reproducers list, top 5 perf pt sire-#1 akc b&t show dog of yr- sire of queen of show at b&t days this year
Grch grnite thomleys big boy
2014 - 1st place reg -ark at hunt, 2014 King of show b&t sect- gill, 2015 King of show b&t sect- plainview, 2015 winter classic best in breed dual ch, 2015 King of show and King of hunt - b&t sect gill
4th place all black hunt -2016 b&t days

Posted by WORMY#1 on 08-07-2013 09:18 PM:

Glad to see the progressive tree rule, be better if it was 30 sec. But a min is better then 4 min an 59 sec for a dog to be able to cover another!!

When are these post to go in effect? I heard UKC was talking bout making hunts 1 1/2 hr hunts instead of 2 hrs. Don't no how true it is.

Posted by rweller on 08-07-2013 09:55 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by WORMY#1
Glad to see the progressive tree rule, be better if it was 30 sec. But a min is better then 4 min an 59 sec for a dog to be able to cover another!!

When are these post to go in effect? I heard UKC was talking bout making hunts 1 1/2 hr hunts instead of 2 hrs. Don't no how true it is.

Brian these proposals will be voted on by each association at AO. What ever proposals pass will be in effect Jan. 1 2014.

__________________
"It's not the will to win that matters - everyone has that. It's the will to prepare to win that matters."
- Paul William "Bear" Bryant

GR.Nt.Ch. Pr Black Magic Queen
Past home of Gr.Nt.Ch. Splitters Magic Otis 2014 Black and Tan Days King of Hunt. GRNITECH'PR' Roughton's Black Splitter X Gr.Nt.Ch. Black Magic Queen

Posted by Allen / UKC on 08-07-2013 09:59 PM:

Gentlemen, (and ladies)

I've added a prop that I missed on the original. Carry on.

Posted by SEKY Coonhunter on 08-07-2013 10:49 PM:

Progressive tree is a good thing. I don't care for the 3rd one.

__________________
Midnight Black and Tan Kennel
GRNITECH Midnight Gunner
GRNITECH PKC CH Midnight Super Crow
Nathan Nantz
nantz54@msn.com

Posted by blackdawg on 08-08-2013 12:49 AM:

I really like the tree countdown, and #2 and #3 about dogs coming into the tree late. There is never an excuse for a dog to come into a tree late, and they should be punished for it! I don't like the fact that a dog can come into a slick tree late, pile on it with the other dogs, and not get minused for it. That rule never made any sense to me.

__________________
Home of:
GrNiteCh Smokey 7

Brock Smith
H- 606-633-7730
C- 606-369-7317

Posted by Brian Carter on 08-08-2013 01:10 AM:

I like the progressive tree rule.
I like the coming into a tree rule.
I like the dog has to hunt for 5 for the 15 to be lifted.

Not so sure about letting the cast vote to let spectators shine trees. If anything it should be a tree to tree basis with the handler having first tree making the decision.

Lot of good stuff on there but it sounds more and more like the other KC.

I like it.

__________________
Brian Carter
828-442-8727

PKC Ch Southern Ruckus ( GrNt Midnight Crow X GrNt Tic Tac )
Solos Super Flo ( GrNt Solo x GrNt Midnight Monkey )
Carolinas Super Crow ( GrNt Midnight Crow x GrNt Tic Tac )
GrNt PKC Ch Super Flo HTX ( GrNt Kansas Jr x NtCh Hawkeye Rose )
GrNtGrCh Midnight Black Wind ( GrNt Fr8liner x GrNt Super Flo )

Posted by jeff thomley on 08-08-2013 01:21 AM:

I like rule 3 -
In the original rule dogs are to be minused for quiting a track and coming in. When u r at a tree and a dog is out somewhere else opening then it all of a sudden comes into the tree it should be minused for quitting it,s track . In this case it is never more obvious that a dog has quit a track .

Posted by STROKIN on 08-08-2013 01:21 AM:

I like the count down rule and the 15 minute non hunting rule

Posted by Gene Raines on 08-08-2013 03:16 AM:

I like all the proposals! THink they all should pass. Moving towards more of what works rather another KC has some of the same rules or not.. The babbling rule if the countdown passes wont matter as much as it does in the other KC because the tree counts more in UKC anyways, in which it should.

I don't know about the tie breaker rule that states the most plus first tree points.. Don't know what that means exactly... What happens when a dog with second tree and dog with thrid tree come out tied at the end.. What then? Can see that being weird. Like the most plus tree points as number 1 instead of least minus, but dunno what the most plus FIRST tree points gonna do.

Other than that, pass em all! I'll def hunt them more. Esp with the minusing dogs coming into trees, countdown, and fifteen that don't get broke just cause you walked a dog into a tree with you. Think those would be some of the best set of rules yet. I'd def hunt more of them then.

__________________
Gene Raines
931-319-0588
Raines' RockyTop Kennels
Home of:

PKC Silver Champion $5000+ Won; (Never in a UKC hunt) GR CH 'PR' Raines' Trusty II AKA "Thunder" (Trusty X Ox Female(Callie))

Gone But Never Forgotten: PKC Silver Champion($5444 won); UKC GR. Nt. Ch. 'PR' Raines' Rockytop Kansas TRUSTY (3 Generation All Grand)
----

Posted by Billy George on 08-08-2013 12:32 PM:

tree rule

First tree is 125 second is 75,The dog with first get a 50 point advantage , So If the tree rule is changed does UKC take away the the extra 25 for first tree and make it 100?

__________________
B&B's Black and Tans

PR B and B's Smokin' Willie

"PR"B and B's Coon Doctor
( Gr.Nite Ch.Bee Creek Dr.Max xGr.Nite Ch. Moonshine Maggie)

Past Home of:

Nite Ch. "PR"B and B's Smokin' Misty (2007-2018)

Nite Ch B&B's Black Hoss (1992-2003)

Nite Ch.Gr.Ch. Shaker Hill Mr. Grubbs (2003-2011)

Posted by K. Singletary on 08-08-2013 01:13 PM:

Woods are shrinking nation wide, let's keep pushing these rules that favor independant dogs. No one ever accused coon hunters of being smart.

__________________
Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

Posted by SEKY Coonhunter on 08-08-2013 01:41 PM:

The problem I have with Prop 3 is kind of situational. I agree that nobody likes a dog coming in after the judge arrives BUT I can see a situation where 2 dogs are on a tree that's slick, and they've got the votes there to get it circled....

I don't see why a dog should be minused for rolling in after the fact when what he just done is no worse than dogs slick treed....

The only way a dog should be minused for coming in after the fact is when a coon is seen- otherwise you're letting a dog that didn't have a coon off the hook just for making a blank tree!

__________________
Midnight Black and Tan Kennel
GRNITECH Midnight Gunner
GRNITECH PKC CH Midnight Super Crow
Nathan Nantz
nantz54@msn.com

Posted by rweller on 08-08-2013 02:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by SEKY Coonhunter
The problem I have with Prop 3 is kind of situational. I agree that nobody likes a dog coming in after the judge arrives BUT I can see a situation where 2 dogs are on a tree that's slick, and they've got the votes there to get it circled....

I don't see why a dog should be minused for rolling in after the fact when what he just done is no worse than dogs slick treed....

The only way a dog should be minused for coming in after the fact is when a coon is seen- otherwise you're letting a dog that didn't have a coon off the hook just for making a blank tree!

Nathan, that part of the rule is not changing. If the tree is circle with no coon its still as it was before. If they vote to circle it will be circled. How are you letting a dog off the hook that didn't have a coon. That has nothing to do with this proposal. The cast still votes one way or the other.

The only dog that gets punished will be the one that quits whatever he was doing and comes in to that tree. Just like quiting a track and coming in to you, right.

Posted by SEKY Coonhunter on 08-08-2013 03:36 PM:

Ralph,

It makes a lot more sense after 2 cups of coffee this morning. If a dog is there prior to the judge arrivinf, but is NOT called treed, he's only minused if coon is seen, right? The ONLY way he's unconditionally minsued is if he comes in after the cast arrives.

You know, I wonder about this too b/c I saw it not long back. dogs were treed, and within 100 yds another dog was trailing. Handler A spent the last 3 minutes squalling like crazy at a tree. He requested all of his time, and used it accordingly at an obviously blank tree.

In the back of my mind I truly believe he was trying to squall hard enough to get that dog to quit and come in....

The dog came in, but its hard to get mad at coon dog for coming to a coon sound.

Guess you can't make a rule for everything can you?

__________________
Midnight Black and Tan Kennel
GRNITECH Midnight Gunner
GRNITECH PKC CH Midnight Super Crow
Nathan Nantz
nantz54@msn.com

Posted by shane_atchison on 08-08-2013 03:44 PM:

Rules

I like them all, but #2 is a must for the integrity of our breed & coondogs in general.

__________________
Shane

Posted by RWS1963 on 08-08-2013 03:56 PM:

spectators shining

I believe if all cast agree it should be allowed . I take several young kids who love to hunt , but when you tell them they can t shine it is a big let down to them . so why would they even want to continue to go or pursue this sport. with out the youth getting into this sport it will die out.

__________________
ROBERT W. SANDERS
GREENSBURG LA .
225-445-0778
PR'SANDERS BLACKFOOT CLYDE
CH' PR' SANDERS BLACKFOOT SUE
CH' PR' SANDERS ROCKIN BONNIE
PR' T.BORDELON'S BLACKFOOT ZENA

Posted by SWANNY6 on 08-08-2013 04:25 PM:

BILLY

First tree is 125 second is 75,The dog with first get a 50 point advantage , So If the tree rule is changed does UKC take away the the extra 25 for first tree and make it 100?

THATS WHAT THEY NEED TO DO IF THEY CHANGE IT.

__________________
Jamie Swan
715 495 2210
Allnight Kennels
FAIRCHILD WI
I use and recommend
Nite Time Supply
and Cajun Lights.
I walk with Mack not Wick!!!

Posted by Slowpoke 2012 on 08-08-2013 05:23 PM:

Garmins

What happend to allowing them?

__________________
Bawl, Chop, Bang, Thump.

PR. Missouri Hi-Dollar Slowpoke HTX

PR. Missouri Nite Hunt Hitman - R.I.P
08-08-2013 - 07-15-2015
Starved to death by a S.O.B named Austin Tibbits.

American Black and Tan Coon Hounds
----------------------------------------------------------

Nt.Ch. "PR." Wildside's BugEyed Betty (W)

Matthew Fann
816-565-1660

Posted by rweller on 08-08-2013 05:51 PM:

Re: spectators shining

quote:
Originally posted by RWS1963
I believe if all cast agree it should be allowed . I take several young kids who love to hunt , but when you tell them they can t shine it is a big let down to them . so why would they even want to continue to go or pursue this sport. with out the youth getting into this sport it will die out.

Not sure how this is going to go.
RWS1963 you can take those kids during the week and they can still have fun. They also need to learn there are rules in place and they need to be followed. This doesn't mean you can't show them the coon after a cast member finds it. They just can't help shine the tree currently.

I can see both side of the fence on the spectator shining. I seen one response say it would not be fair for one cast that has 4 spectators on the cast all shining the tree. That would be 8 lights in the tree where another cast might only 3 shining.
On the other hand you let all the spectators shine and next thing you know there throwing those bright lights up there and the coon will never look.
The only time I have the whole cast shine on my tree (before 2 min.) is if the leaves are off. The coon is either there, its a den or slick.

quote:
Originally posted by Slowpoke 2012
What happend to allowing them?

Spectators have never been allowed to shine.

Posted by buzzardcreek on 08-08-2013 05:52 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by jeff thomley
I like rule 3 -
In the original rule dogs are to be minused for quiting a track and coming in. When u r at a tree and a dog is out somewhere else opening then it all of a sudden comes into the tree it should be minused for quitting it,s track . In this case it is never more obvious that a dog has quit a track .

I agree Jeff the countdown and tiebreaker change where most tree points wins over least minus are all improvements as well.Its good to know that UKC is willing to change the rules for better.

__________________
mike smith

Posted by mike mizell on 08-08-2013 08:08 PM:

what if your shining a tree for 3 dogs and dog 4 puts his track in the ground and comes in to check the other 3 dogs tree?

Posted by K. Singletary on 08-08-2013 08:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Woods are shrinking nation wide, let's keep pushing these rules that favor independant dogs. No one ever accused coon hunters of being smart.

See the other kennel club that has many of these rules has a proposal on the table for 90 minute hunts siting lack of hunting ground and safety. I wish we could see the forest for the trees.

__________________
Kenny's Allnite Black and Tans
Moncks Corner, SC
843-697-5889
ChNtCh Allnite Gypsy Girl

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:58 AM.

Pages (3): [1] 2 3 »
Show all 58 posts from this thread on one page