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How would you define "purebred"?

With all the discussion about purebreds and what they are, I'm just curious how we define a purebred coonhound. I know some always make the statement that none of them are pure until you get back to the wolf but that doesn't really have any practical value. So what does it take to make you feel a dog deserves "purebred" status?
For me, I like to keep things reasonably simple. UKC uses 3 generations to define "PR" Purple Ribbon status. All the dogs in the 3 generation pedigree must be PR dogs. If a dog is UKC registered as a single registered dog, that dogs progeny cannot be PR registered until the single registered dog is back to the 4th generation. That is simple to define and works for me. So I simply define a purebred as any dog that is PR registered. Others may rather choose 6 or 7 generations of known breeding within the breed. Still others may want to go all the way back to the beginnings of the breed although that requires way too much research to suit me. I think we can each define it however we wish. How would you define "purebred"?

im with you jim

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fred harroun
319-325-3786
Plotts
NPHA
APA

You are right sir but alot of others think if it dont say pr then it should not be alowed to be anything but a mutt. I see it exactly like you and the UKC

Hadn't thought about it much. Never even liked the term " pure bred" becouse I know there is none "not even the wolf".
I would be with Jim on this though allso. It would allow you to put back in some of the original breed back in that made the hounds in the first place.

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UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL
Grady Jarvis
808 N. Main St.
Tonkawa Okla. 74653
580-628-0507
CH 'PR' Grady's Dark Woods Waylon -Bluetic

NITECH 'PR' Grady's Insane Tinker Bell (Tink) - Treeing walker --Okla. State Hunt open redg. winner

'PR' Grady's Barley - Treeing Walker

"A purebred dog is a dog of a modern breed of dog, with written documentation showing the individual purebred dog's descent from its breed's foundation stock. In dogs, the term breed is used two ways: loosely, to refer to dog types or landraces of dog (also called natural breeds or ancient breeds); or more precisely, to refer to modern breeds of dog, which are documented so as to be known to be descended from specific ancestors, that closely resemble others of their breed in appearance, movement, way of working and other characters; and that reproduce with offspring closely resembling each other and their parents.[4] Purebred dogs are breeds in the second sense.

New breeds of dog are constantly being created, and there are many websites for new breed associations and breed clubs offering legitimate registrations for new or rare breeds. When dogs of a new breed are "visibly similar in most characteristics" and have reliable documented descent from a "known and designated foundation stock"[4] they can then be considered members of a breed, and, if an individual dog is documented and registered, it can be called purebred"

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Johnny Williams

Jim you wrote a "key" word in your post. To MY opinion, when you used the word KNOWN breeding, that word has alot of emphasis.

I hear people all the time saying "breed coondog to coondog, who cares about what breed they are"..well when that happens you are simply crossing BREED traits in and out, and that does NOT indicate "pure breed" in my opinion. Yes UKC has a set generation pedigree in their standard and yes it no doubt took someone smarter than myself to do that, but even 4 or 5 or 6 generations doens't make a purebreed if someone KNOWINGLY crosses another "type" of hound into their OWN breeeding program.

I think the option to have single registered hounds is great, but I feel like some take complete advantage of this option and KNOWINGLY cross breed. Instead of intentionally cross breeding I would like to see people take a hound of their own liking and get what they want from there.

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35079 Sugar Creek Kennel
256-962-9068
"Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again." John 3:7

To me, the definition of a purebred dog is a dog that, when bred to the same, reproduces itself CONSISTENTLY, in structure, color, general attitude, etc.

Papers don't have anything to do with it. Age of the breed or line doesn't have anything to do with it.

If you have a breeding program that consistently produces get that you have no question about how they are going to look or perform, that is a "pure" breed.

When I breed two English dogs, I know I'm not going to get any black and tan pups. They will all be within a specific range of colors, they will all be within a specific range of size/weight, none of them will have a bobtail or a snub nose, etc. I know exactly what to expect.

If I bred a poodle to a pit bull, there are countless ways those pups could come out, physically and mentally, and you would have absolutley no idea wat to expect. Some could weigh 100 lbs, some could weigh 20 lbs, some could have curly hair, some could have smooth coats, and there's no end to the possibilities of the colors that could come out.

Even if you bred two different breeds of hounds together, there are still unknowns in the equation.

Of course, you can only apply this to a degree - if you get into personalities, etc, this doesn't apply - and everyone knows that EVERY hound pup doesn't always become a hunting hound, no matter who the relatives are...

JMO

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'PR'Maverick's Smoke 'n Moonshine (two 1st place wins towards NITECH)

As this thread suggests, there are alot of different views on what " purebred" means as related to hounds. I don't believe a common definition will ever be accepted.

The question is what good would it do, anyway? Single registration rules figured out how to handle this decades ago. Just get the pedigree filled out as much as possible, make them meet color and performance requirements and let them be papered. Nothing wrong with that as long as someone doesn't try to bend the rules.

You can breed PR dogs together and get dogs that do not meet type and are not supposed to be registered. Its up to the breeder what to do, then.

So, it really boils down to people's decisions. By their decisions, they will be known....

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NO SUCH thing as purebred...I've saw black dogs come with white..Red dogs come looking like black dogs..Saw blueticks come here colored like bird dogs lol......I'd say with the help of DNA it will get better with time..

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Michael Ghorley

Jim,

I don't worry about it. I have hunted with many of my dogs ancestors going all the way back 9 generations through one part of the family line. So far, their size, color, and many of their behavioral traits have been fairly predictable.

I believe that all coon hound breeds with maybe the exception of the plotts have many of the same or similiar genes. Currently, the breeds have been selected mainly for the easiest of all traits to select for ... that is color.

To answer your question, I have accepted UKC's policies through out the years on that matter and I don't expect I will change.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by Fred Harroun
im with you jim

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Home of:
- Gr. Nite Ch. Iowa County Crybabe
- Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan
- Gr. CH Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan II
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- CH. Gr.Nite Ch. Hickory Nut Dan IV 2004 ukc world hunt finalist
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qualified for 2013 UKC World Hunt
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Purebred =accurate pedigree anymore lol

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“The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is not utterly absurd.”

Purebreed = 6 Generation all Grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WITHOUT EVERY DOG BEING DNA YOU DO NOT KNOW. THERE IS TO MUCH CONIVING, THAT IS WHY THE UKC SET UP THE DNA PROGRAM, AFTER A WHILE, WHEN ITS HAD TIME TO WORK THINGS SHOULD BE BETTER UNTILL THEN WE ONLY HAVE WHAT SOMEONE TURNS IN, PED. FOR YRS. HAS BEEN BOUGHT AND SOLD WITH OR WITHOUT THE DOG SO IT IS JUST ABOUT IMPOSSIBLE TO GAURANTEE ANYTHING.

DNA has been around for a while, thank goodness! I still have a 13 year old dog that puppy papers said was direct out of Coma. When I sent in the DNA it said No Way. UKC got it straightened out and sent papers that he was realy out of a dog off Sackett JR. Some of you might say so what he is still purebred, one walker vs another walker that are probably related anyway. But I liked to puked. I had just wasted 6 or 7 years messing with a side of Jr.'s parents that didn't work for me and that's why I was looking for a different line of dogs. Anyway that particular dog was good enough to feed all these years but he never threw anything as good. When I say as good, they might have been even better for competion hunters but they sure didn't suit me.

quote:

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Originally posted by Rough Northern
Purebreed = 6 Generation all Grand!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
NO SUCH thing as purebred...I've saw black dogs come with white..Red dogs come looking like black dogs..Saw blueticks come here colored like bird dogs lol......I'd say with the help of DNA it will get better with time..

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PR is a 7 gen purebreed I believe

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Trent Brummitt
(919) 691-7057
Ch GrNiteCh Timber Shaken Ike

quote:

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Originally posted by blueticking: it
i dont understand if the stud you pick cant throw his looks
and the female has more to do with it being a coon dog
like most has said on here.what do you need a stud for?

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'PR'Maverick's Smoke 'n Moonshine (two 1st place wins towards NITECH)

quote:

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Originally posted by Maverick061106
The male and female both give equally to the pup, genetically - no more or less than the other. Anyone who says otherwise is extremely uneducated on the subject.

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It looks like a redbone. Good enough for me...

Scott

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Red Ryder coonhounds.
Home of the
Xtreme Hyde Dawg

Home of,
PR Nitech Leinie Red Ryder
PR Jan Da Red Ryder Butcher ( JJ )

i register pup both father/mother were both single registerd.... now here lines go back a long ways prolly as far back as anything else thats PR.......so i see nothing wrong with that....defining purebred is going down the drain.... dogs,people,horses,cows etc.

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Weston Tungate
1-270-321-2369

quote:

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Originally posted by 1deadeye
It looks like a redbone. Good enough for me...

Scott

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740-255-3087
william(wildbill)saylor
wildbills101@hotmail
wildbills101@yahoo
http://wildbills101.homestead.com/wildbills101.html

Looks good enough to me!

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Johnny Williams

quote:

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Originally posted by wildbill
i want to single reg blade but i dont think his nose meets purebred breed colors, what do u think,lmao..

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Autumn Clements

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