UKC Forums - Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted by Joe Watson on 01-11-2007 08:15 PM:

Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was looking at MSN where the FDA approved cloned meat. This kinda bothers me. I personnaly feel that it is man playing GOD and we all know that never works. I would like some feed back on what is your opinion on cloning? Now I don't mean lets all start harrassing each other. Just what is your views? Next question is do you think if they cloned the greatest coon dog ever (this is up to you who ever you think the greatest ever is) do you think it would be as good as the original or do you think its all in the trainer? Just some questions. Please do not start knocking each other for point of view I just want to know what yours is.

Posted by Russell Boyette on 01-11-2007 08:29 PM:

I think if they cloned some of these old greats that it would still depend on the training as to whether or not the clone made a good dog. My question would be, would they reproduce like the original?

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Posted by Dan Dogs on 01-11-2007 08:33 PM:

if you clone

you can't upgrade. you only get what you had!!!

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Posted by Brad Kegley II on 01-11-2007 08:35 PM:

my opinion

They seem to all get better after they have died, so I'd say there would be alot less "old best ever hounds" Just a thought.

Posted by Oak Ridge on 01-11-2007 09:18 PM:

Re: Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Watson
I was looking at MSN where the FDA approved cloned meat. This kinda bothers me. I personnaly feel that it is man playing GOD and we all know that never works. I would like some feed back on what is your opinion on cloning? Now I don't mean lets all start harrassing each other. Just what is your views? Next question is do you think if they cloned the greatest coon dog ever (this is up to you who ever you think the greatest ever is) do you think it would be as good as the original or do you think its all in the trainer? Just some questions. Please do not start knocking each other for point of view I just want to know what yours is.

Lets start with your first question.

Cloning is nothing more than taking the genetic code that exists in one egg and sperm combination and injecting that DNA into a fertilized egg, only after the "real" DNA was extracted....nothing more, nothing less.

So if you had a genetic freak of a pig that grew faster and more efficiently than all the rest, and you could decrease the production cost of pork by "mass producing this growing freak"....that is a good thing. It's still a pig, it eats like a pig, grunts like a pig, and smells like a pig...but most importantly, it tastes like a pig.

If you eat chicken, or drink milk...you are already a consumer of "genetic engineering". If you eat corn flakes, or like the taste of corn bread.....nearly every one of our agricultural products are in one way or another "genetically engineered" in one form or fashion. Cloning cows, pigs or chicken for meat is not that far a stretch. Corn for example has been genetically engineered to produce well over 200 bushel to the acre, be pest resistant, smut resistant, drought resistant etc.....and they do this by genetic engineering! Again, not that far a stretch.

You ever get a vaccine? Again, recominant DNA technology. Its the wave of the future, and it has nothing to do with man playing GOD.

Now for the second scenario. I think it would put an end to a lot of wives tales about cloning. There is no direct evidence that things like "talent and personality" are driven by genetics. What does that mean.

It means that if I take a circus elephant that is trained to do 17 different tricks. If I clone it, when it grows up.....it won't know how to do the tricks. It will have the same DNA structure, which means that it should have the same capacity to learn, but not necessarily the same willingness to learn. Cloning is a rubber stamping of the DNA, but not the ability and skills necessary to do anything other than pass on the same DNA.....nothing more, nothing less.

There is something to be said about nature vs. nurture...there is a unique set of ingredients that go into the making of every great coon hound. Genetics is one ingredient, upbringing and training is another, and marketing is the third ingredient.... (

)

The "great ones" were born with a genetic ability. They were brought up in the right environment, and trained accordingly. They proved their ability, and went on to be marketed. Reproductive ability is a matter of opinion. If you have children with 2000 women...sooner or later one of your children is going to be good at football, or basketball, or playing the piano...it does not make you a "reproducer".

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Posted by R.H.Young on 01-11-2007 10:12 PM:

Re: Re: Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Lets start with your first question.

Cloning is nothing more than taking the genetic code that exists in one egg and sperm combination and injecting that DNA into a fertilized egg, only after the "real" DNA was extracted....nothing more, nothing less.

So if you had a genetic freak of a pig that grew faster and more efficiently than all the rest, and you could decrease the production cost of pork by "mass producing this growing freak"....that is a good thing. It's still a pig, it eats like a pig, grunts like a pig, and smells like a pig...but most importantly, it tastes like a pig.

If you eat chicken, or drink milk...you are already a consumer of "genetic engineering". If you eat corn flakes, or like the taste of corn bread.....nearly every one of our agricultural products are in one way or another "genetically engineered" in one form or fashion. Cloning cows, pigs or chicken for meat is not that far a stretch. Corn for example has been genetically engineered to produce well over 200 bushel to the acre, be pest resistant, smut resistant, drought resistant etc.....and they do this by genetic engineering! Again, not that far a stretch.

You ever get a vaccine? Again, recominant DNA technology. Its the wave of the future, and it has nothing to do with man playing GOD.

Now for the second scenario. I think it would put an end to a lot of wives tales about cloning. There is no direct evidence that things like "talent and personality" are driven by genetics. What does that mean.

It means that if I take a circus elephant that is trained to do 17 different tricks. If I clone it, when it grows up.....it won't know how to do the tricks. It will have the same DNA structure, which means that it should have the same capacity to learn, but not necessarily the same willingness to learn. Cloning is a rubber stamping of the DNA, but not the ability and skills necessary to do anything other than pass on the same DNA.....nothing more, nothing less.

There is something to be said about nature vs. nurture...there is a unique set of ingredients that go into the making of every great coon hound. Genetics is one ingredient, upbringing and training is another, and marketing is the third ingredient.... ( )

The "great ones" were born with a genetic ability. They were brought up in the right environment, and trained accordingly. They proved their ability, and went on to be marketed. Reproductive ability is a matter of opinion. If you have children with 2000 women...sooner or later one of your children is going to be good at football, or basketball, or playing the piano...it does not make you a "reproducer".

yeah what joe said

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Posted by ItsOlMander on 01-11-2007 10:50 PM:

i dont think the cloned old dogs would be the same dog they were the first time around, alot of it is upbringing, training, and surroundings. the woods arent the same woods as they were first time around, and they didnt have near the training aids they do today. the upbringing will make the difference in a dog- just think, you can make a dog shy or mean, can effect the dogs hunting style, ect. it may be a better dog, it may be less of a dog but i dont think it would be any worse of a reproducer as it was the first time around as it would still be passing along the same DNA unless for some reason it became shy, trashy or whatever and you allowed it to get worse and it passed that on to its new pups.

hey danny glista- istead of having a dog named jet5 again, you could really have jet5 again

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Posted by Dwils on 01-11-2007 11:02 PM:

Re: Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Watson
I was looking at MSN where the FDA approved cloned meat. This kinda bothers me. I personnaly feel that it is man playing GOD and we all know that never works. I would like some feed back on what is your opinion on cloning? Now I don't mean lets all start harrassing each other. Just what is your views? Next question is do you think if they cloned the greatest coon dog ever (this is up to you who ever you think the greatest ever is) do you think it would be as good as the original or do you think its all in the trainer? Just some questions. Please do not start knocking each other for point of view I just want to know what yours is.

well that wouldnt be cloning the greatest coondogs-- youy would only get a copy of a great reproducer-- and the dog could have come out a dud-- you never know-those dogs might only make coondog if they were trained the same way their original version was--

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Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 12:12 AM:

Sorry To Hurt Anyones Fellings....

Cloning is freaking retarded......
Who in the he77 ever thought that cloning, would make an exact replica of the one cloned. You people are out of your MINDS...
Cloning only brings back the same bloodlines...Not the greatness..
Like the person said before"sorry I didnt catch your name" It is the time an training you put into a dog...thats why their so great..
Thats why they have done it on sheep... they dont know how smart they are...their sheep...for crying out, don't play god... It wonte work...Belive me, I have been made, to do the reading on this...an so far, its not what you think it may be.
An yes... I am in the position that can make such an opion...
just ask...

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Posted by Plottluvr on 01-12-2007 12:17 AM:

Did you read about the PROBLEMS that the farmers are having with the cloned animals???
Sorry but cloning is WRONG and i dont want any part of it. and i believe they should put a label on meat that says it came from a cloned animal....no way i'm letting my family eat that stuff.

Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 12:18 AM:

Re: Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Joe Watson
I was looking at MSN where the FDA approved cloned meat. This kinda bothers me. I personnaly feel that it is man playing GOD and we all know that never works. I would like some feed back on what is your opinion on cloning? Now I don't mean lets all start harrassing each other. Just what is your views? Next question is do you think if they cloned the greatest coon dog ever (this is up to you who ever you think the greatest ever is) do you think it would be as good as the original or do you think its all in the trainer? Just some questions. Please do not start knocking each other for point of view I just want to know what yours is.

NO NO NO...like you said "don't play God"..It Will Not Work..

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Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 12:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Plottluvr
Did you read about the PROBLEMS that the farmers are having with the cloned animals???
Sorry but cloning is WRONG and i dont want any part of it. and i believe they should put a label on meat that says it came from a cloned animal....no way i'm letting my family eat that stuff.

Neither will I ...or my family...It's Wrong...

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Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 12:25 AM:

Good job ..like the thread starter said...Not to bash each-other...
Just opions...But I feel they are all going to be the same...

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Posted by lauraroeder on 01-12-2007 12:42 AM:

oak ridge....

your reply is very good. i enjoyed your answer. play God? no. i don't think that way. the world of science is awesome. i'm sure it takes a highly intelligent person to work in that field and discover all the wonderful things they have. modern medicine is always going to be a trial and error. it is part of the experience. stem cell research is the only split in confusion i have. a whole other chapter. LOL!

and i'm a trusting ol soul...just ask my friends. ROFL! does someone want to clone me? LOL! so that might be the answer...do you really want something back that bad?

there lies the answer....that's what science is. answers and doing it better...i see cloning as science. not playing roles.

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Posted by C. Beyer on 01-12-2007 12:59 AM:

Re: Re: Lipper/nailor/chief Cloned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Lets start with your first question.

Cloning is nothing more than taking the genetic code that exists in one egg and sperm combination and injecting that DNA into a fertilized egg, only after the "real" DNA was extracted....nothing more, nothing less.

So if you had a genetic freak of a pig that grew faster and more efficiently than all the rest, and you could decrease the production cost of pork by "mass producing this growing freak"....that is a good thing. It's still a pig, it eats like a pig, grunts like a pig, and smells like a pig...but most importantly, it tastes like a pig.

If you eat chicken, or drink milk...you are already a consumer of "genetic engineering". If you eat corn flakes, or like the taste of corn bread.....nearly every one of our agricultural products are in one way or another "genetically engineered" in one form or fashion. Cloning cows, pigs or chicken for meat is not that far a stretch. Corn for example has been genetically engineered to produce well over 200 bushel to the acre, be pest resistant, smut resistant, drought resistant etc.....and they do this by genetic engineering! Again, not that far a stretch.

You ever get a vaccine? Again, recominant DNA technology. Its the wave of the future, and it has nothing to do with man playing GOD.

Now for the second scenario. I think it would put an end to a lot of wives tales about cloning. There is no direct evidence that things like "talent and personality" are driven by genetics. What does that mean.

It means that if I take a circus elephant that is trained to do 17 different tricks. If I clone it, when it grows up.....it won't know how to do the tricks. It will have the same DNA structure, which means that it should have the same capacity to learn, but not necessarily the same willingness to learn. Cloning is a rubber stamping of the DNA, but not the ability and skills necessary to do anything other than pass on the same DNA.....nothing more, nothing less.

There is something to be said about nature vs. nurture...there is a unique set of ingredients that go into the making of every great coon hound. Genetics is one ingredient, upbringing and training is another, and marketing is the third ingredient.... ( )

The "great ones" were born with a genetic ability. They were brought up in the right environment, and trained accordingly. They proved their ability, and went on to be marketed. Reproductive ability is a matter of opinion. If you have children with 2000 women...sooner or later one of your children is going to be good at football, or basketball, or playing the piano...it does not make you a "reproducer".

I second this. Well said Joe.
Couldnt agree more

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Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 01:12 AM:

Re: oak ridge....

quote:
[i. stem cell research is the only split in confusion i have. a whole other chapter. LOL!

and i'm a trusting ol soul...just ask my friends. ROFL! does someone want to clone me? LOL! so that might be the answer...do you really want something back that bad?

there lies the answer....that's what science is. answers and doing it better...i see cloning as science. not playing roles. [/B]

Laura..my dear an, good friend....Did you see on T.V. that there is going to be a better way to do stem cell research..It's true.. They " the lab conductors" have found a way to do it w/ out using a embreo...I think That is good news...
Sorry to get of the subject of cloning..

But them doing that ..is great, I think..

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Posted by jackbob42 on 01-12-2007 01:19 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by billie jo
Sorry To Hurt Anyones Fellings....

Cloning is freaking retarded......
Who in the he77 ever thought that cloning, would make an exact replica of the one cloned. You people are out of your MINDS...
Cloning only brings back the same bloodlines...Not the greatness..
Like the person said before"sorry I didnt catch your name" It is the time an training you put into a dog...thats why their so great..
Thats why they have done it on sheep... they dont know how smart they are...their sheep...for crying out, don't play god... It wonte work...Belive me, I have been made, to do the reading on this...an so far, its not what you think it may be.
An yes... I am in the position that can make such an opion...
just ask...

You better do some more reading. LOL
If all you had to do was put time and effort into a dog to make it a coondog , there would be alot more coondogs.
Alot of dogs just don't have it. Cloning would give you the tools to make a coondog.

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Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 01:32 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jackbob42
You better do some more reading. LOL
If all you had to do was put time and effort into a dog to make it a coondog , there would be alot more coondogs.
Alot of dogs just don't have it. Cloning would give you the tools to make a coondog.

Oh yeah...so put some more time an effort into your coondogs...
see what happens..not saying that you dont... I'm sure you do..
I mean that by all meens..You think cloning would be a good thing???
This is actually good conversation....

when I said that i have done all of the reading ..i was'nt joking..
Go back up to my first reply an reread it...all your getting is the same materials that made the cloned hound...

I HAD to do the reading...they call me DOC. Not a vet neither.. I work w/ people...

an I do own some great hounds...note my sig. I'm not a house wife that sits back an listenes...I run alot of stuff for my State along w/ my own club...so don't catch me wrong,by any means...

THIS IS GOOD CONVERSATION...an let it be that..

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Posted by huntinginsc on 01-12-2007 01:37 AM:

well said

well said jackbob42

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 01-12-2007 01:37 AM:

sounds like the trainer is making the dog.i thought
the dog made the trainner

Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 02:13 AM:

Re: well said

quote:
Originally posted by huntinginsc
well said jackbob42

I hope you are not saying anything towards me, are ya...

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Posted by wildbill on 01-12-2007 02:36 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by blueticking: it
sounds like the trainer is making the dog.i thought
the dog made the trainner

you have to have both,,,,nowdays

you have to have a dog with enough brains/common cents to be able to learn and

a trainer with enough brains to bring out the best in a dog...if they can.

sometimes you have to go back to the well and start over ...
after some people pollute the bloodlines with so much outcrossing(whatevers winning at the time) whatevers selling pups)

and cloneing will let us do just that ,go back and get some of the GOOD stuff to straighten out the mess that the money makers have trashed with all paper tigers as some call them...

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Posted by Lee Currens Jr. on 01-12-2007 02:52 AM:

why would you ever go backwards if a dog
couldnt produce something= or better
than himself

Posted by JCS on 01-12-2007 03:50 AM:

quote:
I would like some feed back on what is your opinion on cloning?

As far as pigs, cows, horses etc etc....Poor animal just can't ''reproduce'' as God intended. If they start cloning babies...well guys you know where this is headed....

No soup for you......

as far as the dog what Joe said.

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Posted by billie jo on 01-12-2007 04:12 AM:

[
as far as the dog what Joe said. [/B][/QUOTE]

Your right.....joe is right , I am right , an that is all that should be said....LOL I know that isnt going too be the end....so let it rip...

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