UKC Forums - Super Slams

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-- Super Slams (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928418579)

Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-18-2015 04:43 PM:

Super Slams

I was wondering? Why is it that so many of the super slams are not making, when other registries are having high dollar hunts that are filling with no problem, and the slams pay out a higher percentage to the winner? baffling to me.

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Posted by MIKE CARDER on 05-18-2015 05:02 PM:

Slams

I think its because its new to UKC? Maybe im wrong but...

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Posted by Dogwhisper on 05-18-2015 05:47 PM:

UKC is not known as a $kc registry..... JMO....give it some time.

Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-18-2015 07:26 PM:

Advertising may be the key, but I think you may be right in the thinking that UKC will not hunt for money. Somehow, we need to get the thinking past the old school train of thought.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-18-2015 07:32 PM:

UKC rules and guides are not favored by people that hunt for money.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-18-2015 07:37 PM:

interesting....but there is more there than that. besides, if that dog is covering mine everytime, he/she can't beat me so that carries no weight with me. That's personal feeling too. I see you edited your original post but I have to ask what a guide has to do with it. I can see the rules point, but if you was to pay a little attention to the slam side of UKC, you would see the rules have been modified to fit the "big time" money hunter's needs, and not compromise the integrity of the UKC rules package at the same time. Fact is, most of these rules are a mix of the "big time" hunters wants. Some of the most recognizable names in money hunting were asked for their opinions and UKC came up with this format.

Then again, advertising and education of the hunting public has to be a major key in making this go.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-18-2015 07:41 PM:

Spot hunting, no countdown, no squalling for however long you have to wait....PKC/CHKC hunters hate all that. I have two pro hunts and an elite shoot out within 2 hours of the house. While I applaud the effort, UKC entered a flooded market with an inferior product

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-18-2015 07:50 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
Spot hunting, no countdown, no squalling for however long you have to wait....PKC/CHKC hunters hate all that. I have two pro hunts and an elite shoot out within 2 hours of the house. While I applaud the effort, UKC entered a flooded market with an inferior product

thanks for your opinion. spot hunting has nothing at all to do with the registry and everything to do with the guide. I hunt them all too, and the spot hunt as much or more in PKC than anywhere else, but that's a guide thing. countdown and squalling are there to stay until the rules committee changes it, and there is a lot of "other KC" hunters with influence there too. Inferior product is a laugh, but flooded market holds some water.

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-18-2015 07:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
thanks for your opinion. spot hunting has nothing at all to do with the registry and everything to do with the guide. I hunt them all too, and the spot hunt as much or more in PKC than anywhere else, but that's a guide thing. countdown and squalling are there to stay until the rules committee changes it, and there is a lot of "other KC" hunters with influence there too. Inferior product is a laugh, but flooded market holds some water.

Spot hunting is way more common in the few UKC hunts I attend, but that could be regional I suppose. From what I can tell, people that solely hunt UKC are not going to spend that much on an entry no matter the prize, and people that consistently pay that much for an entry are not going to hunt UKC.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-18-2015 07:58 PM:

now we finally see things the same. lol. I am beginning to think the same on the spending, but then that goes back to the education thing.

Posted by Dogwhisper on 05-18-2015 08:00 PM:

With a year end "Grand Master Invitational", I suspect that will solidify it....Which remains to b realized.
My thinking is there should only b 1 Grand Master winner, not 1 for each breed represented etc. or finial 4 Grand Master cast which imo is the way so many participation winner r being credited now a days......JMO

Posted by Dogwhisper on 05-18-2015 08:11 PM:

At the year end Hunt, split option should b eliminated, hunt off mandatory.

Posted by Rocky Peace on 05-19-2015 12:16 AM:

I believe that when you hunt it off you should hunt for the whole 3200. Everyone is splitting because there isn't much of a difference between 850 and 1350. Make it all 3200 and They will hunt for it all. Jmo. A thought

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Posted by berger on 05-19-2015 12:50 AM:

Re: Super Slams

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
I was wondering? Why is it that so many of the super slams are not making, when other registries are having high dollar hunts that are filling with no problem, and the slams pay out a higher percentage to the winner? baffling to me.

Pretty simple what are they hunting for? cash. spend $250. win one cast and you might go home with $350. or spend $300. win 2 casts and your guaranteed no less then$1000. I know where I would spend my money. There are 2 super slams this year within a 100 miles and also 2 Pro hunts within a 100 miles I know where my money would be spent. You have different hunters hunting each registry and different mind set. Why spend $250. to get championship points when you can spend $20. 12 different times to get them same points. There are way to many Super Slam events. The most there should have been was 4 to 8. You want the entries to fill then make them a Purina point hunt and give the clubs the option of a $250. entry or $125. entry the winnings would be cut in half and the host club would only get $200. instead of $500. if they hold a $125. entry. There is a cast winner even if they get scratched and at the least would get there entry money back. Only 1st round plus point cast winners would qualify for the Purina Nationals. Most pro hunts aren't filled by local hunters that is usually only a handle full of them. That's why these Slam hunts don't fill no reason to travel there is no race.

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Posted by jkhutch on 05-19-2015 02:57 AM:

I agree with the above post. There are to many and you are not hunting for anything besides money. If your dog is already a Grand Night then you can't get any higher. At least in the pro hunts you are earning money for the dog and the handler. I know know it's money you are winning but it's doesn't go to anything to show for the dog on the records.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-19-2015 03:21 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by jkhutch
I know know it's money you are winning but it's doesn't go to anything to show for the dog on the records.

Yep....

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Posted by joey on 05-19-2015 06:10 AM:

It would help some to make it a race, but as stated before the UKC hunters are not accustom to those entry fees and the guys that are, are not going to hunt UKC. Simple as that.

PKC hunters do not like to spot hunt the dogs are to independent for it. They hate not having a count down and they hate having to wait 7 minuets to squall and they are going to want it to be a race. They are the ones going to pay these entries.

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Posted by BigHoss77 on 05-19-2015 06:32 AM:

For me it's the rules have no problem with having to tree a coon to win, but I don't wanna pay $250 and get beat by a me to dog is just my opinion. Also as said before all I'm hunting for is money my dog is already a GrandNight give a race or something to benefit! Also agree with a certain number of super slams allowed also offer different entry fees and formats of a super slam. UKC doesn't just need to make changes to havig money hunts open your eyes and see that other changes need to be made and y'all will have success with the idea. Give me a state race? A youth race? Chance at winning a truck I got fed up with spending my money on y'all and getting nothing back in return ya a trophy if that provided by the club not UKC give back to the hunter and y'all will get more support from me. I am going to pick a PKC an hour away over a UKC at home any day at this point until some changes are made. I know y'all got a fat bank account wouldn't hurt to give a little back to the hunters every now and again.

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Posted by berger on 05-19-2015 03:10 PM:

Fat bank account who cares, if you think the other registry don't have 1 your wrong. Try working for a business that don't have a bank account that keeps growing or start one that doesn't have a bank account and see how long you will be in business.

Joey I believe the race would help substantially. I also disagree that PKC hunters don't like to spot hunt, they just don't as they only need a cast winner same as the way these hunts are set up only 4 casts. You take the large AP OE hunts and you got PKC hunters wanting to spot hunt to get a large enough score to get in top 4 so that's hog wash.

Now tweak some of the rules and have a little different set of rules just for these hunts to reward dogs for treeing coons.
They need to get with Purina and make these hunts a national Purina race.

I have the rule changes and a race format that would make these hunts and the Purina race a success. Though I can't post them on here for free as the ideas are worth big $$.

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Posted by Robert Johnson on 05-19-2015 03:14 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by berger
Fat bank account who cares, if you think the other registry don't have 1 your wrong. Try working for a business that don't have a bank account that keeps growing or start one that doesn't have a bank account and see how long you will be in business.

Joey I believe the race would help substantially. I also disagree that PKC hunters don't like to spot hunt, they just don't as they only need a cast winner same as the way these hunts are set up only 4 casts. You take the large AP OE hunts and you got PKC hunters wanting to spot hunt to get a large enough score to get in top 4 so that's hog wash.

Now tweak some of the rules and have a little different set of rules just for these hunts to reward dogs for treeing coons.
They need to get with Purina and make these hunts a national Purina race.

I have the rule changes and a race format that would make these hunts and the Purina race a success. Though I can't post them on here for free as the ideas are worth big $$.

PM the ideas to me and for half I will Market them fully. My bank account is running low...LOL

Posted by berger on 05-19-2015 03:21 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Johnson
PM the ideas to me and for half I will Market them fully. My bank account is running low...LOL

ROFL

And for the record there would be No tree Count Down.

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Posted by Josh Michaelis on 05-19-2015 03:32 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by berger
[B] I also disagree that PKC hunters don't like to spot hunt, they just don't as they only need a cast winner same as the way these hunts are set up only 4 casts. You take the large AP OE hunts and you got PKC hunters wanting to spot hunt to get a large enough score to get in top 4 so that's hog wash.]

We don't like it. At any hunt

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Posted by BigHoss77 on 05-19-2015 03:55 PM:

Didn't say anything about other registries not having a fat bank account, but you never see UKC giving anything back to the hunter. I went to UKC Nationals got a free Tshirt/cap and had to pay entry fees, I went to PKC Youth World got a Free Jacket, Free Cap, Free Gift Card, Free Meal, Free Dog food etc and free entry fee and you actually had to get out and win to qualify. I won my cast at UKC Youth Nationals didn't get anything in PKC that would've been $100 just for that. You don't see UKC ever having $20,000 hunts or truck hunts. Why should I go qualify my dog for UKC world hunt? I don't wanna go through all that trouble just to win a trophy.

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Posted by Jason Miller on 05-19-2015 03:56 PM:

Most of the older diehard UKC hunters around here, have always said the money hunts bring the cheaters.

From my experience the money hunts bring the ol boys that know the rules and their dogs, so they do not get cheated. I found over the years that going by the rules, is at times considered to be cheating...

Plus, the ice is mighty thin in the money hunt area. You have two registries (PKC and CHKC) somewhat battling for the money hunt scene. UKC should have got into the money hunts a long time ago. AKC dipped their toe in the water and found it to cold for them, and I can promise they got larger pocket books than all the other registries trying to make money hunts profitable...

UKC has the customer base to make a go at the money hunts, and if they would start on the state level they could probably hit a home run. Gas prices are gonna go back up, and if they would start a state race that only counted monies won in the state, and get away from the paid handlers that run all over the nation...

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Posted by berger on 05-19-2015 04:09 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BigHoss77
Didn't say anything about other registries not having a fat bank account, but you never see UKC giving anything back to the hunter. I went to UKC Nationals got a free Tshirt/cap and had to pay entry fees, I went to PKC Youth World got a Free Jacket, Free Cap, Free Gift Card, Free Meal, Free Dog food etc and free entry fee and you actually had to get out and win to qualify. I won my cast at UKC Youth Nationals didn't get anything in PKC that would've been $100 just for that. You don't see UKC ever having $20,000 hunts or truck hunts. Why should I go qualify my dog for UKC world hunt? I don't wanna go through all that trouble just to win a trophy.

Every registry is different UKC is designed as a championship registry. Yes there are other registries that give big awards in cash or trucks, though the registries don't do this sponsors and the coon hunters make this possible by paying larger entry fees.

Everyone has a choice of what they want. UKC World Champion Title today is still the Premier Title out there of any title out there. More dogs and hunters go after this title then any other title out there.

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