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-- How do we sort through to reality? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928501075)

How do we sort through to reality?

A lot of different questions are asked on here about dogs and different traits they have. This place is a great melting pot of coonhunters and I hope it stays that way for years to come.

What I find interesting is when a lot of questions are asked the answers will be given and then fun starts. Seems like all the different opinions on the answers are chopped up and discussed like there is only one possible answer.

Here is what you need need to consider, when evaluating someones answer. What part of the country are they located in. Kind of like asking how do you climb a coconut tree to collect coconuts and then how do you open them. If someone from Hawaii gives you an answer and then someone for South Dakota chimes in. I think I would go with the experience of Hawaii as being closer to the correct method.

We have the same thing with our dog questions. People ask about track dogs? I am sure people in states with heavy coon populations have a different opinion on track dogs that someone in thin coons from the vast lands of Texas or the vast swamps of the South. Same with hunting style. I have seen plenty of pictures of dogs hunted in the norther farm lands, learn to run the edges and many want their dogs to do that. Dogs that run the edges down here are on a road. We want our busting the swamp.. So how can two people from those different locations tell others how dogs should hunt. Well we give our opinions on our locations. Which is fine but then it always seems to come down to who's right and who's wrong. There is not a right and wrong when comparing styles of hunting from different locations. How about the guy wanting the quickest tree dog he can find with a population of coon that would allow my Yorkies to tree a few. That same dog in thin coon is taking him slick tree after slick tree in a different location.

Location means a lot when it comes to the styles of our hounds. The smart hound can deal with location change. I just would like to see us be smart enough before we tell a fellow man he is wrong to understand his opinions are probably based upon his location. Just like the wife giving us advise before we go outside today. I am sure today my wife will hand me a cold bottle of water before I go outside to mow and tell me it is hot out there be careful. While a lot of buddies up North have wives that will remind them to take the snow shovel out there with them because they are going to need it. Both wives are correct. But on here we would end up arguing how one of them is wrong.

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Good post Bruce.

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Tar

But just imagine what it would be like if everyone agreed on everything. There are differences in locations/environment. There are differences in personalities of trainers/handlers. There are differences in styles of dogs. I wonder why we have different opinions?

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Richard all I am saying is for people to understand, as you pointed out there will always be difference of opinions depending on where a person stands in life. Doesn't make them right or wrong. But as a person asking for an opinion, it might be best to ask for a lot of them, then choose the answer your going to put stock in, from someone whose position or location best matches yours.

Because of all the differences you pointed out, we are lucky for one thing. That is our dogs have the ability to overcome a lot of our opinions and still make us a nice hound.

People talk about Clique's and some not wanting to post because the Clique on here will beat them up. I just wanted to point out like you did that we have a lot of different opinions and rightfully so. This board is like a line breeding program. Only a few are posting. I think we should outcross more and get a broader base and more opinions. Don't shoot the next outcross that drops by. Try and understand their point of view and where their opinion is coming from or give them yours with the understanding the next guy that answers their post will give his. It may also differ from yours. Share yours but not to the point that it drives them away.

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Different Opinions

The reason that I post my opinions on here is to help those that are interested in not making the same mistakes that I have made in my life. We all use the same words, but the meanings are not the same.

The best way to evaluated a dog is to load up the best dog that you have or can borrow and go hunt with the dog on multiple hunts and compare the "yardstick" that you are leading with the SUPER dog that you are interested in.
This is time consuming and expensive, but nothing compares with it.

Remember that your host is also spending time and money. If you are not objective and have already made up your mind before the hunt then please stay home and prove your point on this on this board. This is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Bruce I dint know I was in a click am I supposed to be happy lol. I got an unexpected phone call yesterday on a subject said I was 100% correct but after a long conversation it was decided that it was better left unsaid. You don't think we should tell the truth when asked ? You asked me my honest opinion on something the other day by you not responding either you think I was full of it or you agreed one lol.



What I know was learned in thin coons for the most part it takes a different type dog here is a brain teaser for you if you take a dog trained in Texas to a major hunt in Ohio do you think it will have difficulty in thicker coons I don't know because I haven't ever hunted up there.



Tar

Re: How do we sort through to reality?

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
How about the guy wanting the quickest tree dog he can find with a population of coon that would allow my Yorkies to tree a few. That same dog in thin coon is taking him slick tree after slick tree in a different location.

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I'm another that enjoys reading Bruces posts. I think they should give him a monthly column in Bloodlines.

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
I think they should give him a monthly column in Bloodlines.

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Vic you are very correct about an adjustment period. Roll the clock back many years ago down here in FL and like everywhere else. A man wanted to be put in coon when he went to a night hunt. Well we had a lot of areas in central FL that use to have a lot of orange groves and plenty of coon.
I found exactly what your saying to be true if we drew out in the orange groves. Our dogs from the everglades and big swamps couldn't handle all the coon in the orange groves and looked pretty bad slick treeing.

Vic, I agree with the one track deal. I also wonder how many coon a dog that starts out trailing actually is the one it treed. I think they swap tracks a lot more than we give them credit for.

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Tar get over it. When I wrote this post I wasn't even thinking about you. I know it is hard for you to believe that someone can think about a coon hound with thinking about you.

I will go back and try to find the post I didn't respond to.

If you guys think I have time to sit around and write magazine articles you fooling yourself. I am on here during my down time from work. Last week I built many sq, ft, of decking and posted on here during my breaks. This morning I was up at dawn washing a few spots on the deck and as soon as the sun dries it, I will be putting on the base coat of stain. Yesterday I had to put a new grease seal in a toilet and mowed about 10 acres. Not to mention all the ALPHA's I had phone calls on.

Last time I talked to Mr. Wick, I joked with him about his writings. Someone had took him something I wrote on here and he wanted to correct me. LOL Anyway I tried to explain to him that the crowd on here was a lot harder to communicate with than he had to deal with in the magazines. In the magazines someone had to put forth the effort to write a letter and mail it to him. If they called his ideas dumb and pointed out his mistakes. No one but him knew it. On here, everything I write is gone over by Richard and turned upside down by Tar. Then you have the breed experts you don't want to offend. The moderators who are moody at times that you have to keep happy. While all the time telling UKC how they should run their business. It is a hard life being addicted to this coon hound message board. Yes, Honey, I will turn this computer off and go stain the deck.

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Lol Bruce I got all gooey when you asked my honest opinion on something I couldn't believe it !! Me being a dummy and all lmbo.




Tar

Good post Bruce

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Tar the facts are facts. You have a lot of experience and your opinion to me and a lot of others is valuable. That is a no bull statement. Sometime if someone asked me if Tar was narrow minded I would say that a BB couldn't roll through his brain with out touching the sides. Now I know you will mistake that for being opinionated. I think you have the two confused.

Went out to stain deck and figured I would mow the ditches around the place closer. My Zero Turn wanted to slide off into the ditch and I had to walk to the house and get my truck to pull it out. I get back on the other side of the property and the wife decides to start yelling across the field wanting to know if everything was alright. I just didn't know how to explain it to here if I had my truck and mower on the other side of the property. Everything wasn't alright.

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Bruce, I don't believe there is much reality in the coon hunting world. Read the ads on these forms, Dogs for sale, stud ads etc. It's mostly fantasy, the reality is many sellers are living in a fantasy world as to what the dog really is, and there are enough buyers that believe what the seller is selling. Many times the seller actually believes what they say.

Bruce I like to give you a little Greif once in a while but we both love the sport. The difference between me and you is and I might be wrong you love to train a natural I on the other hand ( and I don't know why ) love to take one somebody else has messed up and gave up on and make a good hound out of them training a natural is not a challenge to me I like challenges and goals. That's where my experience comes from fixing broken dogs. I do respect you.



I have tried to get broader minded some things I just don't like lol


Tar

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Bob you speak a lot of truth.

I can remember 50 years ago and coonhunting was fun. I can remember in the 80's of the fun I had. Then things started to change. It seem like it went from coonhunting and having fun to your dogs always being under a microscope from your friends and your enemies. I will admit that probably 80% of my coonhunting life with buddies that I probably had the most sorry dog out there that night. I took that position because if you beat them they were done going with you. But I had a lot of fun. Now I have some pretty good dogs, but not as much fun. It was about going hunting and getting the dog to do something. Then getting back out there and getting it to do a little more. Tree a little tonight and then tree more tomorrow night. Then they started being born treeing. The thrill of getting one to tree was gone. I got the thrill from finding a coon in that tree, because in the early days it was there. That became a disappointment for me. I had a lot of buddies that still lived in the dream world of look how hard they are treeing. I lived in the world of where are the coon eyes. You and I go hunting and we walk and walk to a tree to see your dog, no matter how stylish it is. Treeing Slick. I get tired of that real quick. While your are having fun with that stylish treed dog.

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Bruce...that is a great post...I would definitely want a few pups from a long line of dogs that do it right in those big southern swamps with thin coon...

And a couple more from that vast Texas land with thin coon that can tree that coon if it is there...

I can lead these dogs into a corn patch and turn them loose...IMO these type of dogs can hunt most anywhere any other coon dog can if not better...at least these would be my choice...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Reuben you will probly know right where i am talking about down in Alvin tx where I grew up our place was on chocolate bayou rice fields as far as you could see you would run coons in them and the dogs eyes would swell shut , feet would bleed , loose all their hair not to mention the mosquitos and fire ants and hot it's a cake walk here compared to that lol but you had to have a dog with heart. That put an imprint on me how a dog should be that I can't shake.



Tar

Yadkintar...we sometimes hunt the marsh and chocolate bayou where it dumps at the bay and it is close to FM-2004

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Yep we always fished and crabbed on the Monsanto refinery side. Bastrop bayou to always caught big flounder and trout. Good memories.


Tar

Tar, I have hunted all over the country and you say it takes a certain type of dog down there were you are from and you got dogs that came out of North Carolina. I don't get it.. Just because Delton had that dog in Texas, he was 1000s of miles away from were he was bred. What kind of dogs are you talking about?

I have hunted dogs that came out of thin coon area's in Ohio and didn't see them slick tree, here is why. A dog that is hunted in the mountains or has to go a long way to tree a coon is normally not cut loose again. You leash the dog and go back to the truck, that is what the dog is used to. In Ohio you may hunt the same woods for a few hour's and just keep casting the dogs, they may tree 3 coons in one little woods confusing the real coon dog from the thin coon area. The dog from the thin coon area is used to trailing coon, dog from Ohio does not need to do much trailing when he only has to go thirty yards to tree a second coon..

I have taken dogs from up here in Pennsylvania that were started 8 to 10 month old and knew how they could run a track, In other words I knew how far along they were and what to expect out of them, and hunted them in Florida, Georgia, South Carolina in swamps and know for a fact they could smell a track or scent better iin the water then they could up here in this part of the country, can anyone tell me why that is?