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-- Hunt? What Do you think. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928259448)

Hunt? What Do you think.

I found one of those 2 hour maniacs...3 dog ntch cast.. A is the judge and my dog is C..A strikes first followed by B and C in the oposite direction B is treed a couple minutes later C is treed and the 5 is run. We proceed to the tree and find B and C split about 40 feet apart. We start shine time on Bs tree in a hedgerow along a beanfield. a few minutes in B finds his coon and the judge and i walk over and after some time we all see his coon and plus his dog. We start shine time on Cs tree and find 2 in his tree and plus him up.
We start walking in the direction of dog A to start the 8 we get a couple hundred yards when Handler B announces that The Judge and I are scratched for squalling because when we were trying to find his coon we both had chirped a little with our lips.

Long story short the guy ends up putting a ? on the card and after hearing everyones story the master of hounds finds against the guy so now he files a formal complaint.

The ? to me becomes what constitues squalling and since we were some distance from the situation and the clocks had been stopped when the ? was placed how would you determin for sure when the supposed infraction took place (first 7?)

Probably makes no difference but we find out after that dog A was handled on a porch by a couple kids so he definatly wasnt interfeared with.
This guy saw an opportunity to try and get rid of the competition while we were helping to score his coon.
THOUGHT I HAD SEEN IT ALL.
I will be fine with however UKC rules on this, just needed to Vent.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

i dont see where its a biggie but i can see ukc saying differently... the rules do say no squalling the first seven unless all dogs are treed.... i think that would include with your mouth low or hard... the thing that might save you is him not questioning at the time it happened

So yall score his tree. Then your tree. Then walk a couple hundred yards and then he questions it? I don't think he has a leg to stand on. I mean yall didn't squall did ya?

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Michael Ghorley

Sounds like all of you were trying to bend the rules a little bit.

As far as I'm concerned , when you guys "chirped a little" , you were just as bad as he was.

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Bob Brooks /
Jordan Tyler (grandson)

BackWoods River Walkers/Beagles
Just all 'round , meat gettin' hounds.

If he was so worried about it. Why not say something at his tree where HIS dog was plussed because of it. Instead he waits till other dog is plussed up. Trying to be slick.

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Michael Ghorley

IF THAT IS HOW IT HAPPENED HE SHOULD OF QUESTIONED IT WHEN IT HAPPENED NOT AFTER YOU FOUND THE COON AND LEFT....HE IS WRONG AND I THINK UKC WILL STAND BEHINGD MASTER OF HOUNDS CALL........

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
If he was so worried about it. Why not say something at his tree where HIS dog was plussed because of it. Instead he waits till other dog is plussed up. Trying to be slick.

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HOME OF:
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Originally posted by get rythym
i'd say he while walkin that couple hundred yards it probably just hit him(hey they squalled their scratched)..he shouldnt have file a complaint since yall was that far away,,,,,,did yall go back out huntin or what happenend after that

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Here's the direct quote

"No squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dog(s) to be done during the first seven minutes of shining time unless all
dogs declared struck are at tree and leashed."

That can be anything, clapping your hands, pulling vines etc during the first 7 minutes, now you have a little more leeway on the other things besides squalling because they have to be things the judge deems to be interfering, but squalling at all, whether with your mouth or a squaller during the first 7 minutes is prohibited (because I don't see anywhere it says with a squaller and I don't know that UKC has ever said any different, just squalling in any way would be prohibitied)

He doesn't have a leg to stand on because it was not questioned at the time it happened.

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Let's go huntin

i dont know i wasnt there put what few hunts i have been on
the actual scoring goes on 100 yrds from the tree.

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I don't run scared, I run to scare!

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Originally posted by Lee Currens Jr.
i dont know i wasnt there put what few hunts i have been on
the actual scoring goes on 100 yrds from the tree.

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Let's go huntin

it is what it is.

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I don't run scared, I run to scare!

After doing a search and reading others interpretations, i think had the guy questioned immediatly so that we could have known exactly how much shine time had elapsed he would have a good case to have us scratched. Eventhough the noise the judge and i made wouldnt in our opinion be considered squalling or interfearing. Taken to the extreme almost any noise created wollowing around in the brush to shine a tree could be interfearing. A dead branch falls, your light falls off your head and smacks a rock, lots of things create some noise.
It seems what you are left with is a strict literal interpretation of the rule or a common sense approach which would take into consideration the intent of the rule (to prevent interfearance)and the opinion of the Judge who in this case was the only one with a dog at large.

I have learned however for that first 7 minutes BE VEWWY VEWWY QUIET.

__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

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Originally posted by john Duemmer
After doing a search and reading others interpretations, i think had the guy questioned immediatly so that we could have known exactly how much shine time had elapsed he would have a good case to have us scratched. Eventhough the noise the judge and i made wouldnt in our opinion be considered squalling or interfearing. Taken to the extreme almost any noise created wollowing around in the brush to shine a tree could be interfearing. A dead branch falls, your light falls off your head and smacks a rock, lots of things create some noise.
It seems what you are left with is a strict literal interpretation of the rule or a common sense approach which would take into consideration the intent of the rule (to prevent interfearance)and the opinion of the Judge who in this case was the only one with a dog at large.

I have learned however for that first 7 minutes BE VEWWY VEWWY QUIET.

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Let's go huntin

Its a dumb rule anyhow. Id vote against it. If you don't have a squall proof dog. You deserve minus at 5 seconds or 10 min. Should be able to do whatever it takes to find a Coon as soon as shine time begins. How many min did the guy claimed yall had used when you made the noise?

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Michael Ghorley

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Originally posted by GA DAWG
Its a dumb rule anyhow. Id vote against it. If you don't have a squall proof dog. You deserve minus at 5 seconds or 10 min. Should be able to do whatever it takes to find a Coon as soon as shine time begins. How many min did the guy claimed yall had used when you made the noise?

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

If UKC. defines squalling as producing a sound that simulates a coon in distress then we definatly were not squalling. if they define it as any noise that comes out of your mouth we are guilty if 7 minutes had not elapsed.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

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Originally posted by Rip
John, for all the rest it must be deemed interfering.

Squalling doesn't have that luxury. It says squalling period. It's the rest of the stuff that as long as it's not interfering would be OK, but squalling within the first 7 is absolutely prohibited whether it interferes or not.

"No squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dog(s) to be done during the first seven minutes of shining time unless all
dogs declared struck are at tree and leashed."

You see the rule says "NO SQUALLING" then it says "nor" any action yada yada. So squalling is in the prohibited category and other things are up to whether or not the judge thinks it interferes.

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__________________
I don't run scared, I run to scare!

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Originally posted by Rip
John, for all the rest it must be deemed interfering.

Squalling doesn't have that luxury. It says squalling period. It's the rest of the stuff that as long as it's not interfering would be OK, but squalling within the first 7 is absolutely prohibited whether it interferes or not.

"No squalling nor any action deemed to be interfering with dog(s) to be done during the first seven minutes of shining time unless all
dogs declared struck are at tree and leashed."

You see the rule says "NO SQUALLING" then it says "nor" any action yada yada. So squalling is in the prohibited category and other things are up to whether or not the judge thinks it interferes.

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Michael Rosamond
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Come on John, you said yourself in the very first post you chirped. You can't do that before the 7 minute mark unless all dogs are handled. You even admitted in your second post that it would have stood if he had questioned it at the time that it occurred. But he didn't so he has no question. The bottom line is you squalled when you can't and you got away with it because the question came to late. I'm sure the MOH's ruling will stand and it should. But please spare us the dissection of chirping verses squalling, it's beneath you.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Originally posted by joey
I can’t squall with my mouth it doesn’t even resemble a squall so I guess that would have to be determined first. Did they squall like a coon or did they make a clicking noise? Regardless it had to questioned right then and the time recorded that had elapsed on the shine time.

So can clicking, smacking, whistling, or saying hey coon be determined as squalling?

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

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Originally posted by JiM
Come on John, you said yourself in the very first post you chirped. You can't do that before the 7 minute mark unless all dogs are handled. You even admitted in your second post that it would have stood if he had questioned it at the time that it occurred. But he didn't so he has no question. The bottom line is you squalled when you can't and you got away with it because the question came to late. I'm sure the MOH's ruling will stand and it should. But please spare us the dissection of chirping verses squalling, it's beneath you.

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__________________
Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

Just answer me this this. Why did you make the sound?
Answer that question and you will know if you broke rule 17.

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UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

i experienced the same thing years ago, which ended with them getting the young judge scratched because he made noise with his mouth at his dogs den tree. one treed his dog with mine when it won't treed, drawed minus. whiners would'nt help look my dogs tree either,me and judge found coon anyway and they got minused, and ? everything, back at truck. i requested going back to MH and home they went after decision, pissed off.
let scratched judge guide me and did'nt tree another coon in 80 min by myself, he was upset over them getting him scratched, i guess,but still won cast with what i had earlier. should'a just guided myself and went home STATE CHAMPION!!! naw that would'a been cheating. would'nt it ????
doe's that include talking? whistling too? i whistle, they look. gonna keep whistling to, even if they scratch me, it relaxes me.

these crooks are now at top of hunt clubs, under wings of presidents an such. thats just great!!!!!!!!!!

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Originally posted by JiM
Just answer me this this. Why did you make the sound?
Answer that question and you will know if you broke rule 17.

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside