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John Wick Talks 4 - Trainer?

Dang, what happened? Suddenly it’s time for grass mowing, air conditioners, and waiting till ten to turn ’em loose.

This session, I’ll respond to a few recurring questions or criticisms. First is the question: Has he ever trained a coon dog? Well, I’ve never claimed to be a trainer, but many hunters that know me, or write ads about me, say I am. For my part, I’d say there’s lots more to learn, but I have done and experienced much more than 80 percent of hunters have.

I’m always looking for better ways, and will always share my knowledge with those who want some other possibilities. This grey hair doesn’t stop me from wanting to learn, or respecting talented trainers and innovators of all ages and types of dogs.

For those unknowing or misguided folks who say I don’t have much “woods time,” my feet and knees and back would like to take strong exception to that notion.

Listed below in alphabetical order are some of the better known dogs that I raised, started, and completely trained. After all these years, I clearly remember each of the following. If you have lots of free time, I can show you pictures of most of them and they each have a story with some interesting twists and lessons.

Wick’s Backfire, Wick’s Billy Bee, Wick’s Blaze, Wick’s Blossom Bee, Wick’s Blue Chip, Wick’s Boss Bee, Wick’s Cherry, Wick’s Country Boy, Wick’s Doctor Pepper, Wick’s Doll, Wick’s Double Dan, Wick’s Ginger, Wick’s Hornet, Wick’s Hustling Bear, Wick’s Hustling Roxy, Wick’s Keystone Witch, Wick’s Keystone Woman, Wick’s Little Scamp, Wick’s Lucky Lady, Wick’s Lucky Strike, Wick’s Molly, Wick’s Molly Bee, Wick’s Ozark Dude, Wick’s Ozark Jade, Wick’s Ozark Pam, Wick’s Ozark Rebel, Wick’s Ozark Rip, Wick’s Ozark Ruby, Wick’s Ozark Tanner, Wick’s Ozark Tiger, Wick’s Ozark Timber, Wick’s Polly, Wick’s Prince, Wick’s Rolling Ruby, Wick’s Runover Preacher, Wick’s Stinger, Wick’s Stylish Bull, Wick’s Stylish Charm, Wick’s Stylish Cher, Wick’s Stylish Chick, Wick’s Stylish Crowbar, Wick’s Stylish Fancy, Wick’s Stylish Fern, Wick’s Stylish Flirt, Wick’s Stylish Fur, Wick’s Stylish Hooker, Wick’s Stylish Princess, Wick’s Stylish Ruby, Wick’s Stylish Sis, Wick’s Sugar, Wick’s Super Pup, Wick’s Timber Tramp, Wicked Saint, and a few dozen more.

The following are talented dogs that I bought when they needed a little or a lot of disciplining, breaking, training, and finishing. They were all somewhere between barely started and almost finished, and I worked with them at least a year or two finishing them.

Bumblebee, Sugar Loaf Thunder, Wick’s Bingo, Wick’s Camo Jug, Wick’s Champ, Wick’s Chief, Wick’s Cindy, Wick’s Dixie, Wick’s Flirt, Wick’s Katie, Wick’s Keystone Jill, Wick’s Kitty, Wick’s Little Bonnie, Wick’s Moonlight Major, Wick’s Outlaw, Wick’s Ozark Foxy, Wick’s Ozark Rock, Wick’s Ozark Screamer, Wick’s Rambling Blue, Wick’s Rawhide, Wick’s Rolling Rock, Wick’s Rolling Stone, Wick’s Rose, Wick’s Salty, Wick’s Silver, Wick’s Stylish Banjo, Wick’s Stylish Billy, Wick’s Stylish Nell, Wick’s Thunder

Another good hound is sometimes connected to me. Several years ago Rick Stretch knew of a nice young Walker called Hawk, and he bought Hawk with my money. Rick successfully hunted Hawk for me for about a year and then Wick’s Hawk was sold to Tex Moats and Roy Tramble. I don’t deserve any credit for training or hunting Hawk.

The following are good dogs that I bought and didn’t need to do anything with but enjoy them:

Brinkley’s Ozark Nell and Brinkley’s Ozark Preacher were top dogs I purchased from Jim Brinkley. Babe’s Stylish Banjo from Mac McCallister. Strang’s Polly Kaye from Tom Strang. Hart’s Mary Ann from Bob Hart. Hustling Billy from Chick Carlton. Keechi Jake from Harry Lister. Rolling Hills Dan from Ed Loomis.

Many of the dozens of above listed dogs were UKC Nite or Grand Nite Champions. Some were successful PKC competitors. Several were noteworthy reproducers. Most were dandy pleasure dogs.

In round figures, I’ve sold at least 400 started to well-started young dogs that I raised and got to the point they could at least tree some easy coons on their own and be pretty well straight. Most were sold on a money-back trial. A perfect example is Wick’s Stylish Leeper that I sold two weeks ago. Leeper is 18 months old, well-started, and very nice. He went to a hard working, experienced, good guy that’ll pleasure hunt him a bunch but probably never promote or Nite Hunt him, even though the dog has the talent, voice, looks, style, and pedigree. That’s typical of most of my customers and the dogs they get from me.

During the past 40 years, I’ve bought at least 100 unlisted dogs that I worked with, tuned-up, straightened out, and then resold to happy customers. I’ve also bought many hounds that weren’t what I thought I was getting, or had a major, unbreakable fault. Some were sold at a big loss, some were given away, and others are pushin’ up daisies. An example happened last year when an “old friend” claimed he needed to sell his good female to get some needed cash. In two UKC hunts, she had two firsts. She had a famous sire. On this guy’s word, and to help him out, I bought her. Whew, what a costly mistake! Poor mouth, super trashy, slick treeing idiot and wanted to fight over those empty trees. Yep, she found out what “Winchester” Wick means.

I’ve also raised a few hundred dogs of all breeds that I failed to turn into useable hunting dogs. But, I learned something from every one of them. Many of them showed me that if the desire and ability aren’t born in them, I sure can’t teach or force them to tree coons with gusto. But I always enjoy trying. Even frustration beats boredom. Hunting top, finished dogs night after night can become a form of boredom for me, since I’m not crazy about competition, although I do respect it and participate occasionally.

There are always a few people voicing opinions founded on a lack of knowledge, or jealousy, or some kind of angle or axe to grind, or a sensible and respectful difference of opinion. I do understand that there is significant respect for me and my methods in some circles and different opinions among some other folks. One guy recently said, “Wick’s training methods are BS.” Well, I certainly appreciate his compliment, but I can’t honestly say that all my methods are the Best Systems. But I do believe that many of them are something to consider. That is what BS meant, isn’t it?

Another guy, in a supreme effort to build himself up by chopping me down, said, “Wick couldn’t train a house dog to sit.” Well, after giving that statement all the consideration it deserves and recognizing that training a dog to sit would at least take a smidgen of talent, I came up with a better line that he could use in the future. How about, “He couldn’t even train a hungry dog to eat Alpo!” Another “expert” recently ridiculed my methods of selecting breeding stock, and yet all of his dogs that he brags heavily about are descendents of my breeding program. Duh! Well guys, I’ve shown my list, now show yours.

Next—for several years I’ve been asked to get on here and answer or debate many training or breeding issues and possibilities. For a few reasons, that probably won’t happen. Remember my big, clumsy, arthritic hands and fingers? Typing just doesn’t work. Also, I’m not available many days. Lastly, just about all I know about all aspects of our sport is written to the best of my ability in the new Walk With Wick book. It’s all there for any and all that value or respect my opinion, or want to consider some new thoughts.

Since most of us are going to be busy with tons of things other than tree dogs, I’ll probably zip it up until fall. Enjoy your summer, and maybe we’ll visit again later.

Your thoughts are welcome. HAVE A GREAT NIGHT EVERYONE! J. W.

Nicely Spoken John--Mr Wick

Hello John, Don't know if you remember me or not, Darren Oldridge from up here north of KC MO. Just wanted to say, that was a big list of hounds that you have had your hands on. My list is alot smaller--but one thing I pride myself on is Honesty....
why in the world can't we have more Honest hound breeders and handlers..even out pleasure hunting, handlers will make up stories and add lines as they go. I just want to tell you John
that I respect you as a houndsman and a PERSON. anyone who has trianed as many hounds as you have and has had as many hard knocks as you, deserves respect. my hats off to you Mr Wick


Thanks for all the training advice
Darren Oldridge( Hillydale Kennel )

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Hillydale Kennels -Rock River & Finley River Bred Walkers

If you've spend a lot of time walking behind hounds and then read your book its apparent you know a little about coonhounds. The one thing I dont understand is your refusal to recomend breeders. Its harder than ever to find an honest person thats very knowlegable about the line of dogs they are raising. The biggest winner is always the hottest stud dog whether he can reproduce or not. I think thats would be the most important information I could use, being Ive already read the book.lol.

Skunk Dog

John,

I would have sent you a PM with this question, but evidently you're not set up for that. Maybe this isn't intended for a Q & A session, but here goes anyway. I got a dog that is catchin alot of skunks lately. Like 5 in the last 3 weeks. I really think she likes them and is seeking them out. I figured with the large number of dogs you've worked with, surely you've ran into this before. How do I break this dog? She was straight on coon until this spring. Please bestow your wisdom on me kind sir. If your posts are not intended to draw training questions of this nature, then I will understand if you choose not to reply. Thanks in advance.

P.S. You should think about putting on a training clinic or something.

quote:

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John Wick said: Well guys, I’ve shown my list, now show yours.

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quote:

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“Wick couldn’t train a house dog to sit.”

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__________________
Jody Scott
731-780-4407
Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

wicks

Dang John some things don't need answering and your knowledge in the coon hound business is one of those.


Hang UM High With a B & T See YEA Later
H.L. Meyer

Hey John , there is one aspect of your "dog training" you totally forgot to mention! You were nice enough to let us hunt your PKC CH Screamer Dog as we didnt have one at that time, in fact she was and still is my favorite hound ( passed away in our pen at a ripe old age STILL treeing coon about a week before she died). I was told by a fellow who knew the story on her that she was out of a long line of your dogs.You had sold her as a young dog and the owner called you back complaining she was worthless. You gave him his $ back and put her up for a while , then took her hunting a few times. She later became part of your breeding program after she earned her titles as a COONDOG ! I've heard similar stories more then once!

John, I have enjoyed most of what you have wrote in the past and certainley enjoyed what you just wrote here. Just wish you wouldn't wait till the fall to visit again. Looking forward to more of your wisdom finding it's way to the internet.
Besides if you want to see just how sharp you still are come on here and match wits with some of these computer coonhunters a while and some days you will turn your computer off with a smile on your face and other days you will just leave scratching your head. I have never thought for a minute there was any advice I could give you about dogs but two things come to mind that may help you out here. Don't ever say anything negative about a redbone or dogs with long ears on this message board. The reasons will be as clear as the nose on your face if you ever slip up and doso. I will go ahead and give you a hint on where the problems will come from. Some believe that dogs use their long ears to stir scent and help them trail while others still think redbones are dual purpose hounds. You and I are smarter than that, ears don't stir scent and the go is about gone in the redbone hound and most of them toughen their pads on a show bench these days. One last thing, if you do slip up on here just lay low a few days and a fellow called Redtick (retired rocket scientist) will come on here and get everyones attention directed towards him. He sure can get the heat applied to himself. Happy Hunting John it was nice chatting with you.
PS--After the last two all nighters I had with a knuckle headed pup I got here I am going to back up and see if I can just get him to stand over a can of Alpo the next few days. I want to remind him who is boss and he is going to do what I say. Now if I just don't cut myself openning the can.

__________________
"The Proof is in the Pudding"

"Coon Eyes Matter"
Boss Lights
San Mateo, Fl

I hope he reconsiders his Summer hiatus as well...

but, I applaud his ability to visit and leave. For many, internet coonhunting is very addictive.

See you soon Mr. Wick.

__________________
Great minds discuss ideas
Average minds discuss events
Small minds discuss each other

Tank Wrote

quote:

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but, I applaud his ability to visit and leave. For many, internet coonhunting is very addictive.

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__________________
"The Proof is in the Pudding"

"Coon Eyes Matter"
Boss Lights
San Mateo, Fl

Re: John Wick Talks 4 - Trainer?

quote:

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Originally posted by John Wick
Next—for several years I’ve been asked to get on here and answer or debate many training or breeding issues and possibilities. For a few reasons, that probably won’t happen. Remember my big, clumsy, arthritic hands and fingers? Typing just doesn’t work. Also, I’m not available many days. Lastly, just about all I know about all aspects of our sport is written to the best of my ability in the new Walk With Wick book. It’s all there for any and all that value or respect my opinion, or want to consider some new thoughts.

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John D. wrote

quote:

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Watch out for that Bruce Conkey feller. He will get you saying stuff about Redbones that will get you in trouble, if you're not careful.

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__________________
"The Proof is in the Pudding"

"Coon Eyes Matter"
Boss Lights
San Mateo, Fl

Re: Re: John Wick Talks 4 - Trainer?

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Originally posted by John D
Mr. Wick, If you can make the buttons work on a tracker or Tritronics, you can use this computer. If anything, getting eyeball deep in discussions on here might help your book sales and would do wonders if you ever decide to make and sell videos.

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Mr. Wick,

You and "Where the Red Fern Grows" are probably the two greatest contributors to me coonhunting. My blood flowed for the love of hounds. My grandfother raised and trained fox hounds before there were pens to run in, and he kept the occasional grade treedog. My daddy always had a pack of beagles to run in the fall and winter, but we moved to England when I was in the eigth grade. My Ma-Maw would send me Feild and Stream, Outdoors Life, and Fur Fish and Game magazines (This would have been around 1989), and I found an add about your book in one of those magazines. Well, I read that book atleast seven times, and I looked at the pictures countless times over those next couple of years. I finally made it back to the States in 1991, and purchased my first coondog puppy. Well, things did not turn out with many of the critters I fooled with, but with the Lord's blessing and much hard work I started raising and training some dogs that would tree coons pretty consistently.

There is no need in you coming on this computer and defending yourself or the things you have accomplished. I probably should have thanked you many years before now, but I guess I was always kind of awe struck when I would see you at the hunts with the groups of men around you. I never really wanted to bother you because you seemed so busy talking to all the other people. Well, Thanks Mr. Wick for all you have done for me without yourself even knowing it.

__________________
I got him right here!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jason Miller
Late Night Kennels

BTT

__________________
Jody Scott
731-780-4407
Frogjump TN
Black Creek Treeing Walkers

If I had feelings, that might would have hurt.

Mr. Wick, thanks a million for your book and the chaps are WONDERFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by sheepster
Mr. Wick, thanks a million for your book and the chaps are WONDERFULL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Stylish Billy alas Hobo Jack

Hello John

You sir are in a class by your self and it has truly been a pleasure to get to talk to you the few time's that I have and your book is with out a dout the best money I have ever spent .thank you for your time and honesty.

John Chaney.

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Chaney's Cooncreek Kennels
Driven by Tater Powered by Frosty
Home of Nitech Chaney's Cooncreek Tater
Chaney's cooncreek Song
Frosty blue fancy II
Chaney's Cooncreek Harley
Chaney's Cooncreek Frosty Heir
T.C.Cooncreek Bawl's Chigger
The only person a dog has to please is the guy that feeds him.

All this training

In my opinion is very much over rated.Im sure not gonna do much of it .Im only interested in the natural go hunter's naturally accurate,naturally can run a track ,naturally stay treed .I have tried stomping them or training them to get out from under my feet YEAH they got out from under my feet but never hunted to suit me.I have blowed them on threw the wood's with a shocker for wallering a track back and forth standing on there head but still did not make the kind of track dog to suit me.I have stomped I mean trained them off of slick tree's but they still was not accurate enough to suit me.My training day's are over Im leaving that to you expert's.Im either to stupid or to lazy or maybe both but the kind I M looking for ya just don't train.

Barry, you make a good point here. I just wish those kind were a little easier to find

Barry Lynch, GREAT POST.

Barry I dont think he has claimed to train dogs to do any of that. Except for the slick treeing and depending on why the dog does it can be worked on. You cant make a dog run a track or go hunting I'm sure you know that. You can work on small problems and think that is what he does.

John,

I read your book, and was disapointed. However don't expect a better book to come from me ever, and most likely, from anyone else. I cannot say there is anything untrue in there.Thank you for your effort. I will buy the next one also......

Mr. John do you remember selling a dog to a guy from Sandersville Ga. It was about 18 years ago. We renamed him Stylish Buster . I'll bring my papers tomorrow and put his pedigree on here. I bought him from my friend a couple of months after he bought him from you I think he was about 13 months. I think you will remember him. He bawled on track and treed with a dying bawl the whole time. He treed with a quivering bawl. Looking forward to hearing if you remembered him. Thanks Rocky Tanner