UKC Forums - Rules Question on closed tree.

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Posted by Mtn Tough Engl on 01-15-2020 05:36 PM:

Rules Question on closed tree.

You have a two dog cast. Dog A Strikes then Dog B in that order. Dog A is treed three minutes is applied. After three minutes is up and tree is closed. The handler trees dog B which will be considered a split tree. When we arrive at dog A tree, dog B is at the tree also. So dog B gets minus 125 for leaving the split tree. Now the question does dog B receive 25 points for being on dogs A tree for treeing but not declared treed. And if slick or off game it will receive 25 minus. And what happens to dog B strike points. Are they deleted for slick or off game. Or if coon is seen his strike is minus. Is this correct? Thanks

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 01-15-2020 05:42 PM:

5 b

Circle strike points in this case. Don't know why I agree they should be deleted but not the way the rules are. They get circled.

Posted by trevorwade09 on 01-15-2020 05:44 PM:

If a coon is seen, minus strike points. If tree is slick or offgame (registered divison) the dog would be assigned 25 tree points and strike and tree points would be minused. If tree was circled, dogs strike points are circled.

Here is an old advisor column that is somewhat outdated but gives a good breakdown of "treeing but not declared treed". Obviously the "next available" terminology has now been changed to simply read 25.

https://www.ukcdogs.com/article/com...15&view=old

Posted by nextcoonhunters on 01-15-2020 06:19 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by trevorwade09
If a coon is seen, minus strike points. If tree is slick or offgame (registered divison) the dog would be assigned 25 tree points and strike and tree points would be minused. If tree was circled, dogs strike points are circled.

Here is an old advisor column that is somewhat outdated but gives a good breakdown of "treeing but not declared treed". Obviously the "next available" terminology has now been changed to simply read 25.

https://www.ukcdogs.com/article/com...15&view=old

Rule 5 (b) always applies to any and all dogs that come in after the judge arrives. Forget about anything else for a minute. The rule states so much as the only time a dog is penalized for coming into the tree after the judge arrives is if a coon is seen in the tree. If a coon is seen, the dog is to receive its strike points minused. If the tree is scored any other way (slick/minus, circle, delete, scratched for off game), the dog receives circle strike points. This applies even to Nite and Grand Nite Champions in the event of off game. 5(b) takes precedence over any other rule, such as 6(g), where Nites and Grands are scratched for off game

Strike points get circled not minused. Dog b now has 150 minus if coon is not seen 125 split tree 25 covering tree late, circle strike according to rule 5 b. If coon is seen minus 200 or 225 depending on strike position. 125 for leaving split tree and minus strike points in accordance with rule 4 d.
Unless I'm wrong. Which I am
When it comes to dogs treeing but not declared treed, when the judge arrives, there's a couple different rules in Section 4 that may apply. Knowing which rule applies requires the tree to be scored first. If a coon is seen, Rule 4 (f) applies, and the dog receives its strike points minused. Nothing else. If the tree is circled, the dogs strike points are also circled. Nothing else. If the tree is slick or off game is seen, Rule 4 (j) applies, resulting in next available tree points assigned to the dog, and then both strike and tree points are minused. This is the rule that they incorrectly applied to Dog C in the scenario given above. Again, this is for dogs treeing but not declared treed, and does not apply to dogs that come in after the judge arrived. If off game is seen, in the case of Nite Champions and Grand Nite Champion casts, those dogs that were treeing but not declared treed when the judge arrived are scratched right along with those dogs that were declared treed. They do not get a break like they would had they come in after the judge arrived

Difference in at the tree and coming in after.

Posted by trevorwade09 on 01-15-2020 06:26 PM:

Not disagreeing with you on Rule 5(b) but how I'm reading the question, the dog is there BEFORE the Judge arrives, not after. So is considered treeing but not declared treed.

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