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Garmin Astros in the hunts

I was just thinking last night and I was curious but I don't think you will be able to use these during comp. hunts. I will be purchasing one in the future but not until they get the collar issue worked out. I know its a tracker and a GPS all in one so I'm sure everyone knows they won't be able to pack the reciever in a hunt. Kinda sucks you will have a GPS that you will have to leave in the truck or keep turned off. In the future I have a feeling they will end up coming out with a collar that will be similiar to the traditional tracking collars and then that will be a whole other issue with the KC's.

These Systems sure will make it easy to catch a dog thats on the hour. Just a few thoughts.

You are allowed to take a tracker to the woods with you. So why couldnt you take your garmin?

Where did you come up with that idea? You can carry it and use it under the same circumstances that you could any other tracking system. Using the GPS to mark your truck before you left it and using it to get you back to the truck isn't any different then using a standard GPS now.

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I agree its a GPS and a man should be allowed to carry it.

The question I'd have is, can it be turned on during hunt time? If the answer is no, then someone, preferably with Garmin, needs to prove to me that you can power up your receiver and immediately pick up your collar, wherever he might be. Because I haven't had that happen, reliably, with my system.

I've been powering it up and leaving it on for the duration of my hunt.

I'd say the kennel clubs should be proactive, learn how these things work and get the word out on what will be allowed and what will not BEFORE the formal complaints start pouring in. jmo.

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I doubt the KC's will allow this unit to be used but only during time out just like your traditional tracker once some thought is put into it. If your dogs are running out of hearing distance during a hunt I believe you will not be able to turn this unit on and use even as a gps because it is considered a tracking unit also and can easily be used as both by the push of buttons. Rules are rules . You can carry it maybe but it will have to be turned off while time is in. Just my opinion.

Maybe we can get a UKC official to enlighten us.

Just thinking ahead guys.


John D. you beat me to the Reply and That is my thoughts exactly.

Great question and I agree with John the KC's need to learn what this thing does and rule on it's use. I was discussing this last night and in my opinion they create a lot of new possibilities for people willing to bend the rules to do so.

It will be too hard for a judge to police exactly what this device is being used for during a hunt.

In my opinion you will see this device fall under these rules in the near future. Again this is just a thought and my opinion.

Rule *20. ANY PERSON CAUGHT USING ANY DEVICE USED TO CONTROL OR LOCATE DOG DURING HUNTING TIME, WILL BE BARRED INDEFINITELY FROM REGISTERING DOGS AND PARTICIPATING IN UKC EVENTS. DEVICE MAY BE USED IF DOG(S) WEARING DEVICE IS SCRATCHED AND ALL OTHER DOG(S) ARE RECOVERED FOR RE-CASTING. *TRANSMITTERS FOR ELECTRONIC TRAINING COLLARS MUST BE LEFT IN VEHICLE AND MAY NOT BE CARRIED BY HANDLER OR SPECTATORS UNTIL DOG WEARING DEVICE IS SCRATCHED AND ALL OTHER DOGS ARE RECOVERED FOR RE-CASTING. (FOR TIME OUT PERIODS, SEE RULE 6(l). LIGHTED COLLARS ARE NOT CONSIDERED TO BE A LOCATING DEVICE AND ARE ALLOWED.
© Copyright 2006 by United Kennel Club, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
(ALL LICENSES for UKC LICENSED Events shall
be granted or withheld in the sole discretion
of United Kennel Club, Inc.)

Rule 6
(l) For use of any device used to control or locate dog prior to cast completing hunt time. (Locating device may be used during time outs.) Lighted collars are not considered to be a locating device and are allowed.

kenny

very good point...........

I don't see a problem. If you use it as a tracker, then those rules apply. If you just use it as a GPS, then that is fine also. If you have the Astro transmitter on the dog, then I would assume it is being used as a tracker and rule accordingly. I don't see the problem.

Astro

I don't think it would be allowed during the hunt, because it shows a dog treed, or at least that is what i have been told. The tracker collars sre supposed to show the same thing, but they are not reliable at all, due to a collar being turned on the dogs neck. I do think, if you used it in the same manner as the rules state, only during a time out, then i should be allowed. Maybe Allen or Todd will chime in here and give us some direction. it maybe after this weekend before they can, dur to the Winter Classic. If i see them there, I will be sure to ask. I have been thinking hard on a system myself, but i won't to know i can use it before i purchase one.

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Shouldn't be any problem. What's the difference with this unit than any other hand held unit? You aren't able to pull out a Tracker during hunt time, so I won't be able to get my Garmin out during hunt time, but once a time out is called I'll be able to pull it out of my pocket and know where my dog is just like you. I don't see a problem.

John D. I've kinda had the same problems, just turn off the sound and leave it in your pocket. Just pull it out during timeout and it should be like any other unit.

quote:

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Originally posted by Randy Holtmeyer
John D. I've kinda had the same problems, just turn off the sound and leave it in your pocket. Just pull it out during timeout and it should be like any other unit.

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John D. on devil's advocate

I still don't see the problem. If a fella want's to cheat he's going to. Only you would know if it was inadvertant or not, you got to sleep at night.

I don't think we use common sense on this stuff. If a fella's using his Garmin during hunt time he is cheating send him home. If he cheats with this thing he'll be the same guy that goes up on the ridge and takes a dump and pulls out his tracker!!!

If I treed my dog everytime this dang thing said he was treed, I'd minus out in about 15 minute's!!! I got to beat your dog not your tracking system!!!

If I'm judgeing, all I need to know is does your dog wear a GPS transmitter? If it does and you get a GPS out with the clock running, your gone. If your dog doesn't have one, your GPS is a compass. If you say your dog has the transmitter but your just useing your GPS as a compass, your just as gone. In other words, the only way your GPS better ever come out with the clock running is if your dog does not carry a transmitter on it's collar.

Hmm, ok I'll say this and then shuddup about it. I predict that by this time next year, we'll be sick of posts about GPS abuses or misuses in situations that nobody has thought of, so far...

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I posted this because I'm not sure if everyone even the KC's have really thought about this unit in the hunts. I'm sure some have some thoughts but kinda curious how they thought about handling it.

I would never believe someone would use this unit to cheat in some way. lol

IF YOU ARE ONE OF THOSE WIN ANYWAY YOU CAN GUYS IT IS GOING TO BE ANOTHER WAY TO SCRATCH SOMEBODY. IF YOU AREN'T IT WON'T BE AN ISSUE. YOUR DOG STILL HAS TO TREE A COON THAT THE JUDGE CAN HEAR HIM DOING IT AND SEE IT TO BE SCORED.

Quote by John D. "Hmm, ok I'll say this and then shuddup about it. I predict that by this time next year, we'll be sick of posts about GPS abuses or misuses in situations that nobody has thought of, so far..."

I think John is 100% correct.

I don't think so Bruce. I think UKC will keep it very simple. If your dog wears it and you are holding one with the clock running, you are violating 6(i). They aren't going to concern themselves with whether or not it is on, locked on, in dog tracking mode, etc. If you are holding in your hands, you are useing it. Simple as that. If your dog isn't wearing one, useing it with the clock riunning is no different than looking at your compass with the clock running.
All that judge needs to know is does your dog wear a GPS or doesn't it.

I'm not at all worried about someone sneaking it out without the judge knowing it. The rules require the cast to stay together. If it is used at the wrong time, someone will notice. If the judge or a majority of the cast says it was used, that dog is gone. You think the MOH won't back that? You think UKC won't back that? They will.

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
I don't think so Bruce. I think UKC will keep it very simple. If your dog wears it and you are holding one with the clock running, you are violating 6(i). They aren't going to concern themselves with whether or not it is on, locked on, in dog tracking mode, etc. If you are holding in your hands, you are useing it. Simple as that. If your dog isn't wearing one, useing it with the clock riunning is no different than looking at your compass with the clock running.
All that judge needs to know is does your dog wear a GPS or doesn't it.

I'm not at all worried about someone sneaking it out without the judge knowing it. The rules require the cast to stay together. If it is used at the wrong time, someone will notice. If the judge or a majority of the cast says it was used, that dog is gone. You think the MOH won't back that? You think UKC won't back that? They will.

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astro in hunts

I'm 100% with Jim. It is really a very simple deal. If time is in, and you have the thing in your hands, you are at a minimum scratched. Real simple and straitforward. No excuses about wanting to use it as a compass, I forgot, oh it's turned off, blah blah blah. If your dog has on a garmin collar, then keep the tracker put away. How much more simple could it be? The problem is going to come in if you don't have a judge with enough guts to pull the trigger on someone who is breaking the rule.

Please read what I said. Pretty Please. I said, I agreed with what John said 100% about there being problems and people trying to use these to their advantages and uses we haven't thought of yet.
Yes it should be simple but it won't be.

I have a coat with big pockets and I don't need to take my GPS out so see the screen if I positon it correctly in my jacket. Or I put it inside my coat and I have cut a window in my pocket to allow me to see the screen and peak every now and then. The list goes on.
I take out my regular GPS say 3 times in 10 minutes just looking nervous and playing with it. The fourth time I pull out the ASTRO which looks like the gps I just pulled out three times. How is the judge going to tell. It will get worse when more people get them as I will know what your dog is doing also and how close it is to mine.

I say we hunt naked. Just don't forget the bug spray!!!

Well Bruce, if your dog is wearing an Astro on his collar, I won't being asking, or worrying about which GPS you pulled, if your dog is wearing a GPS, and GPS in your hand, it is a tracker.

As for all the coat pocket cut window shenanigans..... no doubt somebody will try anything. I suppose that is why the barred list consumes a whole page. I'm not worried about it and doubt anyone with much experiense is.

I have actually experienced this situation once already at another KC's last World Hunt. Handler with dog wearing a GPS pulled his GPS out with the clock running. His hunt ended right there.

quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce M. Conkey


I say we hunt naked. Just don't forget the bug spray!!!

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I'm suprised that UKC hasn't made a comment yet, I know atleast one of them has viewed this post surely.

UKC give us some input on this. PLease.lol