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-- Deep and Alone.Deep and Alone (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928544969)

Deep and Alone.Deep and Alone

Let’s hear some of the methods your using to train a dog to do this.

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Listen to the Coonhunting University Ppodcast that had Kevin Cable. He talks some about that.

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Breeding is the best way. Naturally independent is the best. I know a stud that seems to be throwing this trait in his pups.

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Mr. Mullis you are correct. But that opens up a can of worms most of these guys have never seen. Back in time I have hunted against a lot of winners that had the trait of being independent in their genetics. Many to the point it was aggravating hunting with them. They had one thing it common. That trait took them away from the pack hounds and made them winners. Winners in this sport get advertised and bred. Therefore we have a lot of this genetics in todays hounds. However in the 90's maybe late 80's when being alone which we just called a hard hunting dog in those days. Got recognized as a winner. Many started training for it. Setting dogs up if they even thought about coming to another dog. They using a switch of them. Electronics changed that and everyone was a dog trainer. More talk about how to accomplish making a loner than studying pedigrees and finding the natural. Difference between one made and one with the genetics is the one with genetics will reproduce those type dogs. Then instead of training them to be alone. If they do tree with another dog. You just don't reward them. It is funny that most haven't figured out that a dog with certain genetic tendencies can have those tendencies enhanced by just not rewarding the dog if it crosses the line. They don't have to be beat or shocked. Just handled properly. Then again it is too easy to start pushing buttons and head toward ruining a nice dog that has what you want inside it. You just don't know how to bring it out.

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Deep and alone, by ability not training, by genetics not training!

Years ago deep and alone was by knowledge and ability, not so much anymore I believe. By ability ; able to find , track a coon that others couldnt, putting that dog at a tree that other dogs couldn’t get to ! By knowledge ; a dog knowing where to look for a coon that others couldn’t find Also putting that dog under a coon that others couldn’t find! Both these situations might not put your dog deep and alone as consistently as a trained to be deep and alone, but I sure as heck Would want it By these two methods and if you have both, BINGO!... and you have breeding traits to win!

So is it possible to take a dog that is naturally a close hunter and turn it into a deep and alone type dog?

If so, what’s the process for training a dog to do this?

Is said trained dog a deep hunter when hunted solo or only when in company of another hound?

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Dan

You can make a dog figure out if has to hunt out by getting off road and turning loose and set in truck and wait. When you turn them close to a road and they do not hunt put them back in box and go to another spot or go home
Personally i think they are born kinda dog their going to be
Training them, have to be careful when they are young easy to ruin a good dog

From what I’ve experienced in the last 45 years of owning & training my own hounds is that the hard hunting dogs are pre-programmed genetically with a deep desire to hunt/search for their game. If they don’t have that there’s not much you can do to make them hunt deeper or harder.

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Dan

people want deep and alone,but there is a problem when they are to deep and out run there mouth.

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Back in the 70's you just had some dogs that did not want to hunt. Stick around you as you walk hunted or sit on the tailgate. With enough pressure on them you could make them disappear into the night. But they were probably not hunting. Just staying away from you.

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Training

I have noticed that most pups raised on the outside at a young age with the ability to ramble 24/7 ends up being a better hound about going hunting and being more independent. I know some dogs have it in their blood but I know most that are raised with more freedom on a farm or ranch tend to be not scared of the dark and are usually quick starters...

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
So is it possible to take a dog that is naturally a close hunter and turn it into a deep and alone type dog?

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Re: Deep and alone, by ability not training, by genetics not training!

quote:

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Originally posted by ronald schultz
Years ago deep and alone was by knowledge and ability, not so much anymore I believe. By ability ; able to find , track a coon that others couldnt, putting that dog at a tree that other dogs couldn’t get to ! By knowledge ; a dog knowing where to look for a coon that others couldn’t find Also putting that dog under a coon that others couldn’t find! Both these situations might not put your dog deep and alone as consistently as a trained to be deep and alone, but I sure as heck Would want it By these two methods and if you have both, BINGO!... and you have breeding traits to win!

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

I just ask them nicely

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jason

I just breed them and I'd say 90% or more come out that way .

I cant imagine having to add into my training program man making one to be alone. I have enough trouble here in my neck of the woods just to get one started.

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
From what I’ve experienced in the last 45 years of owning & training my own hounds is that the hard hunting dogs are pre-programmed genetically with a deep desire to hunt/search for their game. If they don’t have that there’s not much you can do to make them hunt deeper or harder.

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I own an older female Walker who was given to us because her last three owners did not like her hunting style. She gets gone in a hurry and will run 800 yards and then tree. She waits just long enough for you to get to that tree and then she's off on another track and runs it to another tree. We have not had her that long but we have been told that if she trees you can bet your bank account there is a coon in it but she's not sticking around long at that tree. My husband refuses to hunt her because he can't do all that walking every night. I talked to one of her previous owners and he said that he used to sit in his living room and cut the dog loose off the back door and when the handheld told him the dog was treated he would get up and put his boots on. I'm sure this taught her independence. She's a great dog, but I think you have to be young and fit to keep up with a dog like that. I am brand new to this hobby and trying to learn as much as I can but I think this kind of dog is difficult for a beginner

quote:

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Originally posted by Auventera
I own an older female Walker who was given to us because her last three owners did not like her hunting style. She gets gone in a hurry and will run 800 yards and then tree. She waits just long enough for you to get to that tree and then she's off on another track and runs it to another tree. We have not had her that long but we have been told that if she trees you can bet your bank account there is a coon in it but she's not sticking around long at that tree. My husband refuses to hunt her because he can't do all that walking every night. I talked to one of her previous owners and he said that he used to sit in his living room and cut the dog loose off the back door and when the handheld told him the dog was treated he would get up and put his boots on. I'm sure this taught her independence. She's a great dog, but I think you have to be young and fit to keep up with a dog like that. I am brand new to this hobby and trying to learn as much as I can but I think this kind of dog is difficult for a beginner

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Donald Bergeron

Take the money out of the competition hunts and see how long “deep and alone” stays in the game.

My guess is there would be a lot of dogs for sale or given away. My guess also is that the tide would turn and within 10 years they’d be half as many coon hounds and half as many coon hunters.

The registries are as much to blame for what todays coon hounds are……..or are not! The love of money is the root of all evil so the Word says.

There was a day when the competition hunts were very influential in improving the breeds as hunting dogs as well as competition dogs. No monetary rewards issued. Most of us wanted enjoyable hunting dogs and enjoyed the fellowship and camaraderie of other like minded folks. It gave us a reason to get together and see what others had for hounds. You could pleasure hunt the same dogs you competition hunted.

Maybe there is a day coming when it will revert back. The lack of open country to free cast hounds of any kind is what will likely undo us. As I type this VT and NH are attempting to pass legislation that would essentially be the end of free casting of hounds to pursue bear, coyotes and snowshoe hare.

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Dan

I like your comment DL NH. Much truth to that.

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quote:

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Originally posted by shadinc
How many requests have you had from people wanting to buy this female since you posted this?

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
Take the money out of the competition hunts and see how long “deep and alone” stays in the game.

My guess is there would be a lot of dogs for sale or given away. My guess also is that the tide would turn and within 10 years they’d be half as many coon hounds and half as many coon hunters.

The registries are as much to blame for what todays coon hounds are……..or are not! The love of money is the root of all evil so the Word says.

There was a day when the competition hunts were very influential in improving the breeds as hunting dogs as well as competition dogs. No monetary rewards issued. Most of us wanted enjoyable hunting dogs and enjoyed the fellowship and camaraderie of other like minded folks. It gave us a reason to get together and see what others had for hounds. You could pleasure hunt the same dogs you competition hunted.

Maybe there is a day coming when it will revert back. The lack of open country to free cast hounds of any kind is what will likely undo us. As I type this VT and NH are attempting to pass legislation that would essentially be the end of free casting of hounds to pursue bear, coyotes and snowshoe hare.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
I don’t believe that there should be any difference between a top hunting pleasure hound and a top competition hound…

Even if someone wanted a less intense pleasure dog the dog should have the same hunting traits but a more biddable dog…a dog that wants to hunt with the hunter…

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Dan

quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
So here’s the thing…………for the most part 40 years ago there wasn’t any difference between a good pleasure coon dog and a good competition coon dog. Most guys then deplored a silent/tight mouth dog. The only ones wanted that type were hide hunters when a prime hide well fleshed and stretched was bringing $45 bucks.
There again……..money enters the fray! And don’t forget that was in a day when telemetry systems for hounds wasn’t even an option. I hunted from 1978 until 2000 with no tracking system. If it weren’t for the present day GPS systems there’d be darn few if any that would be hunting “Old Deep & Alone!”

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Bud Keller probably bought and sold more coon hides than any man alive. i know for a fact he bought and sold 50,000 in 1 year. The dog he chose to hunt was one of the most "deep and alone" known during his time. it was also before telemetry and Mike was known to be lost on the river for days at a time more than once. A historical fact relayed directly to me from Bud himself. He also almost never lost a cast regardless of who was handling him.

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