UKC Forums - Breeding for the best outcome.

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-- Breeding for the best outcome. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928413255)

Posted by Robbie Brown on 03-23-2015 06:51 PM:

Breeding for the best outcome.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

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Posted by chuck west on 03-23-2015 11:34 PM:

Doesn't look to be a fair poll to me ,, kinda like stacking the deck in your favor .

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Posted by david.e.penley on 03-23-2015 11:45 PM:

I think breeding to a proven reproducer backed by UKC, gives the breeder and the new owners of the pups a better chance of having something they can be proud of !

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Posted by mike shannon on 03-24-2015 12:48 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by chuck west
Doesn't look to be a fair poll to me ,, kinda like stacking the deck in your favor .

Breed coondog to coondog from families of reproducers not just one dog. Papers don't tree coons. Because a dog has 3900 pups yes he is going to have more titled pups than a dog who has 39 with titled pups... JMO.

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Posted by david.e.penley on 03-24-2015 01:16 AM:

If you check with the proven reproducer's backed by UKC, you'll find they come from coonhound to coonhound and from family of reproducers.

Posted by chuck west on 03-24-2015 01:32 AM:

Both of Sackett Jr. grandmothers was open registered females ,without an open female (Queen Lou) there goes Lipper down the tubes , Hillbilly Mac's Mother was open registered not to mention Mr. Quick's ped was all ?????? Titles today are fairly shakey when you get to reading the win lists in the back of the Bloodlines . So thinking that the only dogs worth breeding to HAS to be all grand doesn't mean squat .

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Posted by Jeff Prince on 03-24-2015 02:13 AM:

Having culled many all grand pups who's parents were on the reproducing list I put very little faith in it . Find a natural out of a litter of naturals who's parents were the same and you'll get dogs who reproduce natural coondogs

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Posted by Robbie Brown on 03-24-2015 03:15 AM:

This is a poll, not to be picked apart by a fan club or a team of.

"Stacked"
I am very clear in what I state in the bottom of every post. So read it and see if it has anything to do with WARRIOR or breed or titles. Read it and think about it.

Example: ( no one has the answers to breeding, only to help with the outcome )
Just like our children, we all see things in them like us. Or you could be lucky like me and have a son who is 1 of 7 in the world with his condition, never to talk and many others things that limits him. So with that being said the outcome is what you make it, no matter what you cross togather.

I will say "I do have the greatest son in the world with not a bad breed pet".

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Posted by HIDEHUNTER21 on 03-24-2015 05:26 PM:

Breed coontreer to coontreer!! Everybody knows the reproducer list isn't very accurate on coondogs. Just tree dogs!

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Posted by amazingcursouth on 03-24-2015 05:43 PM:

coon dog X coon dog is the only way to breed. All Grand is good and reproducers list help. BUT nothing takes the place of coon dog X coon dog breeding.

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Posted by HOBO on 03-24-2015 06:52 PM:

Can't vote, don't see an option that I like.

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Posted by dawgtired62 on 03-24-2015 11:53 PM:

find ya a good Clover female ...crossed good on Rat jmo

Posted by Robbie Brown on 03-27-2015 02:09 AM:

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Posted by Roy Grant on 03-27-2015 12:30 PM:

I think hunters need to ask themselves, why am I breeding my female? When you have an association that promotes TREE TREE, giving money and prizes for minus points. You are going to get exactly what we are getting today. Read John Wicks article in the April cooner. Sums it up well.

Posted by deadeye ruck on 03-27-2015 03:59 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Prince
Having culled many all grand pups who's parents were on the reproducing list I put very little faith in it . Find a natural out of a litter of naturals who's parents were the same and you'll get dogs who reproduce natural coondogs

I have declined to vote because this statement is on the money. Reproducers or not, if you have naturally starting coon dogs close, you stand a very strong chance of reproducing coon dogs.

I have owned and started pups out of many different studs and females. Many have been all grand or have had top reproducers close (multiple top reproducers within two generations including parents). I have culled a few that were bred out of this world! I can tell you firsthand that while having top reproducers close or having an all grand pedigree is nice and helps sell pups, it doesn't translate to a definite result. While I will decline to mention bloodlines, I just culled on that would have been 7 gen all grand if she was finished.

I have found that more times than not, if you want a coon dog take a long look at the female producing the pups.

Take a look at some of the top reproducing hounds out there today. While their sire may be on the top reproducers list, most of the time it's because top reproducing females were brought to him.

It isn't because of their daddies, it's the females behind them...

Please understand my post isn't directed at anyone in particular.

Let the stones fly!

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Posted by deadeye ruck on 03-27-2015 04:03 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Roy Grant
When you have an association that promotes TREE TREE, giving money and prizes for minus points. You are going to get exactly what we are getting today.

LOL

Posted by david.e.penley on 03-27-2015 05:26 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by deadeye ruck
I have declined to vote because this statement is on the money. Reproducers or not, if you have naturally starting coon dogs close, you stand a very strong chance of reproducing coon dogs.

I have owned and started pups out of many different studs and females. Many have been all grand or have had top reproducers close (multiple top reproducers within two generations including parents). I have culled a few that were bred out of this world! I can tell you firsthand that while having top reproducers close or having an all grand pedigree is nice and helps sell pups, it doesn't translate to a definite result. While I will decline to mention bloodlines, I just culled on that would have been 7 gen all grand if she was finished.

I have found that more times than not, if you want a coon dog take a long look at the female producing the pups.

Take a look at some of the top reproducing hounds out there today. While their sire may be on the top reproducers list, most of the time it's because top reproducing females were brought to him.

It isn't because of their daddies, it's the females behind them...

Please understand my post isn't directed at anyone in particular.

Let the stones fly!

I agree with you 100%, but with that some studs don't reproduce. The stud has to do their part also. it doesn't matter if there all grand or not or out of top reproducers, not all will make coonhounds ! Out of a proven reproducer (male or female ) does help your chance's. jmo.

Posted by deadeye ruck on 03-27-2015 05:36 PM:

I should have edited my post to mention it was written from the perspective that most folks look more heavily on the stud to produce.

There are many very well bred studs that reproduce out there and each brings something a little different to the table.

Posted by Robbie Brown on 03-27-2015 06:53 PM:

Something to think about:

Most Stud Dogs are called Stud dogs after they win something big, and may not have any pups on the ground. What should be looked at in that case is the sire and female the winner is out of.
If it was just about winning than we all should just breed to Mr. Clean.

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Posted by mike shannon on 03-27-2015 06:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Jeff Prince
Having culled many all grand pups who's parents were on the reproducing list I put very little faith in it . Find a natural out of a litter of naturals who's parents were the same and you'll get dogs who reproduce natural coondogs

Right on the money.... These kind you don't have to keep then until they are 5 years old before they tree their own coon...some one here called him a pup!!!! Natural to Natural equals Naturals..

Posted by Josh Michaelis on 03-27-2015 07:53 PM:

For one, how hard is it to finish a dog to Gr Nt? Not that hard from what I can tell, so an all Grand Pedigree means zero to me, and would have no bearing on what dog I would choose to breed to

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Posted by deschmidt27 on 03-27-2015 09:04 PM:

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Robbie Brown
This is a poll, not to be picked apart by a fan club or a team of.

"Stacked"
I am very clear in what I state in the bottom of every post. So read it and see if it has anything to do with WARRIOR or breed or titles. Read it and think about it.

Robbie - I think the question is why is "None of the Above" not one of the options?

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Posted by blackflagginit on 03-28-2015 02:31 AM:

both of the best "stud dogs" I have ever worked pups out of had less than the 100 pups required to be on the reproducers list.

GRNTCHGRCH Pine Knob Durango and GRNTCHGRCH Thompsons Frankenstein .

that being said, Durango was the sire of the FIRST all grand English litter, and Franks pups could throw an "all grand" pedigree if finished themselves (I finished 1, made another a ntch, and my daughter put a 1st on a 3rd, all out of the same cross)

btw both of those dogs had INSANE %s of ntchs and grtntchs out of the pups they did produce.

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Posted by Robbie Brown on 04-02-2015 03:21 AM:

Btt

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Posted by Jason Baldwin on 04-02-2015 05:41 AM:

When I bred my female to a stud dog and raised a litter of pups those were the same pups I sold to other people and from the very same litter we kept two pups to try and train ourselves for our own personal coondogs. I found out later that's not how everyone does it.

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