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The Cost Of.......

What is the COST of having a stud dog collected and stored ?How long can it be stored ? And what is the cost of having a female AI'ed ? If you have done this or are doing this what are your thoughts on it ?

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CLAVEY RIVER BIG GAME CURS

not sure on what I cost to collect but in Oklahoma its 28 dollars a year to store and it cost from 450 to 550 to ai her

I just had a female AI'd a couple weeks ago, Dean at Nevergone did her up, $225 for the artificial insemination and progesterone test, plus $10 a night for boarding. Total came to $285 with six nights of boarding. With gas involved I think i spent a little over $300 I'm pretty sure he charges the same thing for males

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

What are your guys thoughts on AI, do you feel it the same as natural breeding in the end ? Guess what I'm asking is if I took the same two dogs and breed them twice once with AI and once with the male covering her is it the same ?

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CLAVEY RIVER BIG GAME CURS

quote:

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Originally posted by CLAVEYRIVERCURS
What are your guys thoughts on AI, do you feel it the same as natural breeding in the end ? Guess what I'm asking is if I took the same two dogs and breed them twice once with AI and once with the male covering her is it the same ?

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'Pr' Grnitech Pkc Ch. Skuna River Midnight Moe
Skuna River Bark x Trackman's Famous Sassy{littermate to Cold Sweat}

'Pr' Nitech. Stylish Clover Shark Jill
Great White Shark x Brush Creek Patch
Queen of hunt TWBFA Walker Sectional.Franklin Co. Coonhunters{Oh.}2013.

All I know is, the Opposite Sex Winner at Redbone Days this year was an AI baby

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

quote:

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Originally posted by prostockpat
No its not the same.How many TOP ai dogs are there?
I thought about it myself.
Then I talked with 2 vets that went to 1 of the top vet schools in USA
Michigan State University.Both said same thing.Its Not the same. Told me why,but I forget what they said changes.

1 of the original old timer blueticker/breeder don't like either.Said he might get 1 "good" pup,rest will be duds.Gave up on a.i. after a few tries.

Everything is better,straight from the tap!!

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Everything that makes them a COONDOG is on the inside

quote:

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Originally posted by Corey/UKC
All I know is, the Opposite Sex Winner at Redbone Days this year was an AI baby

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CLAVEY RIVER BIG GAME CURS

AI has nothing to do with how the pups turn out.If anything the difference would be between frozen and chilled semen.I doubt there's a difference or a lot of the top breeders wouldn't be using it.Theres plenty of winning semen dogs.

I think the current world champ was a semen dog John the Baptist!

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Honey Hollow Kennels
Home of :
Ch PR Broad Creek Brash Hog ( 2 1st place wins toward nite ch) English male

AI, TCI, surgical implant, natural breeding has ZERO to do with it. All racing greyhounds are bred with frozen semen. Ok.....99.9999% of them. The DNA is not changed because of the method. All has to do with age of female, environment, feed, training etc. The method used to carry the males DNA to the females egg will not enhance, inhibit, change the quality of the pups. It is scientifically proven that a female has her best litters in the first 2-3 litters. You also must remember that a female is born with X number of eggs. She doesn't produce new ones. So a female that is 7+ yrs old can definitely affect the quality and quantity of pups.

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"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

quote:

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Originally posted by blocksporthound
AI, TCI, surgical implant, natural breeding has ZERO to do with it. All racing greyhounds are bred with frozen semen. Ok.....99.9999% of them. The DNA is not changed because of the method. All has to do with age of female, environment, feed, training etc. The method used to carry the males DNA to the females egg will not enhance, inhibit, change the quality of the pups. It is scientifically proven that a female has her best litters in the first 2-3 litters. You also must remember that a female is born with X number of eggs. She doesn't produce new ones. So a female that is 7+ yrs old can definitely affect the quality and quantity of pups.

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Joey,

I was referring to racing greyhounds since there is such a huge data base for pedigree/performance. That said you will always find and exception to the rule. There was actually a graph I had seen tracking the top 100 females and their best offspring age-wise. And the highest production was between 2-5 years of age. I know coondogs are not racing greyhounds but they are still 100% athletes and I have seen a ton of similarities in breeding, raising , feeding. Strength, speed, stamina.

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"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

I looked into if today. It was a lot more expensive then I thought.
250 for transcervical AI first breeding
150 for second breeding 2 days later
85 per progesterone test
85 initial office visit
One vet wanted a heart worm test an the other wanted a brucellosis test lol
50 bucks to collect semen
50 bucks for kit
Approx 100 to overnight ship each time

I'm sure it can be done cheaper but these city vets are killing me

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the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

A friend of mine had it done on her female here in Michigan, about 5 years ago. The male's (frozen) semen was air-shipped from Florida.

Altogether, her cost was just over $500.00, back then. Part of that fee was the daily testing done on the female, & the brucellosis test. Then, collection of the male, packing & shipping the semen, & the A/I procedure for the female. She did get a nice sized litter from the procedure.

I had it done between 2 of my dogs here in Michigan, back in 2011. I took both dogs up to Freeland, to a reproductive specialist vet. The cost was $150, but we had no puppies.

The 2-5 year age range given for the "highest production" is what I have also read & researched. This is probably the main reason why the large, commercial kennels usually remove females from their breeding program by the time they are 5 years old, & replace them with younger stock.

quote:

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Originally posted by blocksporthound
Joey,

I was referring to racing greyhounds since there is such a huge data base for pedigree/performance. That said you will always find and exception to the rule. There was actually a graph I had seen tracking the top 100 females and their best offspring age-wise. And the highest production was between 2-5 years of age. I know coondogs are not racing greyhounds but they are still 100% athletes and I have seen a ton of similarities in breeding, raising , feeding. Strength, speed, stamina.

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__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

First thing....and I enjoy all the posts and PMs! Love talking "shop" with y'all!!
Keep the questions coming!

First the cost!! Yowwwweeeee! Yes costs can vary wildly and I mean wildly! I know some places $2000 for an implant and progesterone from $40-$150!!! Ask around! I am not going to advertise my prices on here as there are others who do same as I and might not charge the same. If you live near me and want my prices please call or PM. My advice is to shop around....ask other breeders.

Number two....age/genetics. How many people know on a stud dog what comes out the "shoot" today was "manufactured" two months ago?? So if a dog is collected and he has an infection, that nasty little bugger was brewing two months ago. But he is treated and two months later he is (hopefully) fixed. Now on the females....no such a thing. They are born with what they are born with. So....those eggs you had pups with her as a two year old are the same as what you use as a seven year old. They don't make new "eggs". And the store that stores the eggs is aging too.....I think you are all getting it now! :-) older equipment....old eggs....uterine morphology.

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"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

I also wonder about the damage done to the eggs/DNA-RNA when an old female is bred._ Research shows that starvation, overweight, exposure to toxins, disease,_microorganisms, etc, basically anything negative that has ever happened to the body can alter the DNA/RNA in the eggs._ Age alone has degrading affects on the eggs and uterine environment.__ So methinks there is a higher chance of puppies being born with mental/physical health problems from old dams._

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"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

Chilled or frozen ? What is better

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CLAVEY RIVER BIG GAME CURS

Good question....difference in "quality" is zero. A "breeding unit" is 100 million, live, normal, forwardly motile cells at 50% + motility. Period.

Frozen vs chilled. Apples and oranges. Frozen needs to be timed properly and put in intraunterine. Meaning TCI or surgically. Chilled needs to be timed properly as well but lives for about 4 days vs the 24 hours in frozen. And chilled can also be put in as a vaginal AI. But....with chilled...again the motility needs to be there, the person who prepared it needs to do that properly, package properly and receiving end needs to know different extenders and how each needs to be addressed to prepare for insemination.

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"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

So when a female doesn't take it was human error ?

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CLAVEY RIVER BIG GAME CURS

I recommend you call Dean at Nevergone. He can explain all this stuff to you

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

That is a loaded question and the answer is "could be". Especially if the person did not time the bitch. If you don't know where she is at in her cycle how do you know when to breed her? Some bitches will "flag" days before they have ovulated. I have heard people say "you breed when they stop bleeding". Wrong! If the bitch is healthy and young, semen was examined and good, timing was perfect, the method of delivery of that semen is largely irrelevant. If the bitch misses you need to look to uterine cytology, age, and hormone level dropping. Also ultrasound. Did you U\S before day 30? There are a lot of factors. The most common human error would be timing. Or lack of.

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"The Frozen Semen Specialist"
CCH GRCH 'PR' Brushy Mtn Dust To Diamonds
BMOS SETW Days 'PR' Knockhill Fast Freddy

When my female came in her last cycle saw it the first day. The fifth day she stopped bleeding. She didn't hit her peak until day 17 when she was bred. If she would have been covered by live breeding without the progestrogen testing she wouldn't have conceived.

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(641) 521-5953

When I took my female to Nevergone it was 7 days from 1st sign of blood.Dean did the progesterone test and she was ready NOW.Told me I had 24 hours to get her breed or it wouldn't happen.That left no time to ship chilled semen.I had to choose from frozen semen that was stored there and had a healthy litter of 7 pups.I was impressed by Deans knowledge and ability to get it done.I'm sure Bloodsport is the same way.