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-- ?????? about father/daughter cross (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=493166)

?????? about father/daughter cross

OK GUYS GOT A FRIEND THAT WANTING TO BREED A FATHER BACK TO ITS DAUGHTER (BEAGLES) MY ? HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE DONE THIS IN ANYKIND OF HOUNDS AND CAN THEY BE UKC REG??? THANKS AHEAD

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Dual Grand Ragland Rollin Thunder

Nite ch'PR' Rats Molly
2nd place 2007 UKC WORLD HUNT

Nite ch' PR' Southern Pines Squirt

PR' Slow Talkin Sadie


PR' Anderson Wild n Blue Pump


Robby Anderson
336-466-6716

You got around a 25% success rate or less... That's pretty tight, they might just run around in a circle....Continuously

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DONT NEED A DOG THAT BAD MYSELF.....

LOL THATS WHAT I TOLD HIM MAYBE HE WILL NOT DO IT I DONT THINK IT WOULD WORK I JUST WANTED SOME OF YOUR GUYS INPUT

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Dual Grand Ragland Rollin Thunder

Nite ch'PR' Rats Molly
2nd place 2007 UKC WORLD HUNT

Nite ch' PR' Southern Pines Squirt

PR' Slow Talkin Sadie


PR' Anderson Wild n Blue Pump


Robby Anderson
336-466-6716

Not much more risky than any other cross. It's done all the time with differing results.

They aren't gonna be scatter brained or have three tails or anything.

But they need to be bred because of their abilitys instead of their "blood" or whatever.

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Let's go huntin

i wouldnt do,way to close in my opinion im actually waiting to cross my female walker out of hardwood dreamer to a young male i have out of 100 proof doc that is if he turns out to be a coondog the female is well on her way i would rather breed coondog to coondog than worry about all the titles in a pedigree this is only my opinion im sure others see it differently

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Rod Cox

Leopards

It is interesting to me to look at Leopard pedigrees. It seems to me that a lot of the dogs that are doing a good deal of winning in the hunts are out of very close crosses. I can think of several dogs that are out of brother sister or half brother sister crosses that have really turned out well. I personally would not breed a father back to a daughter but I am positive that you would have no ill side effects if you chose to do so. Some lines of dogs do far better inbreeding than outcrossing.

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if it were not for inbreeding and linebreeding for specific traits,,walkers and blueticks would still be english dogs.

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Randal Raper -
RED EAGLE MACK BRED WALKER DOGS

ive done it several times, they wasnt crazy acting and they looked fine. if the father or daughter have any big holes in them i dont think i would do it, but if the dogs dont have any real bad faults it might work. the best dogs i ever hunted with were line bred or out cross, ive hunted with plenty of inbred dogs but i have to say they were far from the best i ever saw. good luck.

When I was a real youmg fellow I joined a coon club. Me and my buddy met a retired Colonel that loved his Blueticks for they were the fairest in the Land. We akso met an old man and his hunting buddy that hunted blueticks but they offered to take us hunting instead of bragging on dogs. One night they also invited the Colonell. We treed one that he did not want to turn out on. Then he turned his loose and they trailed and got a good ways off and trailed and trailed and trailed some more. His dogs did have good tongues and you could almest feel him quiver every time one of them opened. Aafter a couple of hours of that we decided to see if we could ride closer. The county had just put up a chainlink fence around a boat landing about an acre big . The river side was open and the gate end was open. The Colonel caught up his dogs and left. After he was gone the old man said " well, I think he finally got what he been breeding daddy to daughter for, dogs that can trail all night on a half acre.

dont do it. i got a red an white beagle thatsbreed tight like that and hes dum as dirt. scared of his shadow and will bark at anything. hes just a pet that my daughter takes care of.

quote:

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Originally posted by walker1978
dont do it. i got a red an white beagle thatsbreed tight like that and hes dum as dirt. scared of his shadow and will bark at anything. hes just a pet that my daughter takes care of.

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Let's go huntin

Inbreeding is simply a tool. The goal of inbreeding is to reduce variability within a breeding program. If the father/daughter cross is well thought out and based on sound selection and the goal is to reduce variability then go for it.

Every tool available to breeders of working dogs has a positive and negative. There is NO tool that has just a positive benefit.

Line breeding offers the same positive of reducing variability, but it is also slower than inbreeding. Line breeding also has the same negative of bringing dangerous recessive traits to the surface as inbreeding. While some may view the latter as a bad result, there are those that feel knowing what they are dealing with is better than burying it through repeated out-crosses

Out-crossing increases variability, but decreases reproduce-ability. Of course cross-breeding increases variability even more than out-crossing

Each breeding scheme is simply a breeding tool. Each breeder should figure out what their goals are and choose the proper tool to reach their goal.

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Larry Atherton

Aim small miss small

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Bein dumb as dirt has absolutely nothing to do with how tight it's bred. It came from a line that throws dogs dumb as dirt, nothing more.

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works sometimes depends on the dogs i used ed mauney tack dog on daughter and got some real good dogs.

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Cw Wilson

line breeding does produce the product you want at the end result you think it should be. but,,,, line breeding too close for too many years produces all the traits ( and the fine line of goofy) you dont want. knowing when and where to outcross is the line of it all. when you think you have the best and then the best has been bred back over again a little too close too many times brings out the worst in them all.
larry , you are so right on the recessive traits coming to surface.
jmo,
if this cross is one you know what you want out of and they havent been line bred (inbred) to close. do it. only, if you know what you want.
i am presently watching a kennel of the best go down hill at a rapid pace because of line breeding. aka, in breeding , for over 20 years. it is a shame because of refusal to outcross.
dogs born with half a tail, one pup in litter, etc. etc.,.... the end of an era because of a chip on ones shoulder.
line breeding and in breeding can become one in the same if done for a long enough time.

than again, jmo.
kelley

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CH 'pr' branchville mtn banjo man

CAN YOU SPEAK ENGLISH

Them bein "goofy" from a line breed or "too tight" just isn't true.

The science does NOT support this. It is an old wives tale.

It can show you recessive traits, but those traits were in the parents or they wouldn't be there. It didn't just pop up because they were "too close". It already popped up in the line, breeding close just makes all things more consistant, the good and the bad.

It doesn't make "new" things. New mutations are still extremely rare, even in very strongly inbred animals.

Look at our white mice for science, they are very, very inbred and they aren't goofey. Matter of fact they are way more inbred than any dog cross ever probably, but that can't be proven. They have been bred like this for many, many, many generations.

Of course all those years of inbreeding makes them very consistant in what they throw and limits suprises.

Like Larry said though, it's just one tool and has to be used correctly.

If bad comes from it then it's because it was already in the line to begin with.

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Let's go huntin

I think the father/daughter cross has been made for years in West Virginia without much success!

quote:

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Originally posted by Rip
Them bein "goofy" from a line breed or "too tight" just isn't true.

The science does NOT support this. It is an old wives tale.

It can show you recessive traits, but those traits were in the parents or they wouldn't be there. It didn't just pop up because they were "too close". It already popped up in the line, breeding close just makes all things more consistant, the good and the bad.

It doesn't make "new" things. New mutations are still extremely rare, even in very strongly inbred animals.

Look at our white mice for science, they are very, very inbred and they aren't goofey. Matter of fact they are way more inbred than any dog cross ever probably, but that can't be proven. They have been bred like this for many, many, many generations.

Of course all those years of inbreeding makes them very consistant in what they throw and limits suprises.

Like Larry said though, it's just one tool and has to be used correctly.

If bad comes from it then it's because it was already in the line to begin with.

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CH 'pr' branchville mtn banjo man

CAN YOU SPEAK ENGLISH

quote:

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Originally posted by MLA
I think the father/daughter cross has been made for years in West Virginia without much success!

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http://youtu.be/qu_Y1wQ923g


If you do it ? how will you keep up with it?

quote:

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Originally posted by branchvillekell
dear sir, show me the blood line on a white mouse. please do. oh yeah, you cant. sure enough, i have seen a blood line to a specific breed be dominant in recessive traits for the last 5 years. but, i guess you can trace their blood line. too close for too many years equals more probability that the qualities you didnt want will show because you have bred for it.
of course it takes many years to perfect the imperfect dog.

kelley

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Let's go huntin

Breeding in itself is a mystery, we can talk science, genetics, formula's, etc. but no one has it mastered, and probably never will. If their was a true science to breeding or if it was mastered we would all have coon dogs, and every litter produced would be successful. To me a father/daughter cross is to close, but who am I. All we can do as responsible breeders, is breed for specific, consistently replicable qualities and characteristics, keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best.

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quote:

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Originally posted by l.lyle
http://youtu.be/qu_Y1wQ923g


If you do it ? how will you keep up with it?

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WHY WOULD ANYONE INBRED? REMEMBER WE AS HUMANS NEED TO BE SMARTER THAN THE ANIMALS WE RAISE.

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