UKC Forums - Poll: Combining Breed Associations

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-- Poll: Combining Breed Associations (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=928406013)

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 01-25-2015 12:19 AM:

Poll: Combining Breed Associations

What do y'all think about combining the two breed associations into one? I've heard this passed around for awhile now. Just interested in you're thoughts?

__________________
Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

Posted by Jim Bartley on 01-25-2015 04:16 AM:

It'll never happen. One is UKC chartered and one is independent. One represent competition hunters and show dogs. The other represents all hunters, coon and big game.

__________________
Jim Bartley
Lake Huron Blueticks
Deckerville, Michigan

Blueticks bred to run to catch and catch what they run!

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“We are the free and unconquerable people of the United
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Posted by coonbone on 01-25-2015 05:34 AM:

Jim is right.Another good reason to have both organizations is the amount of quality bluetick hunts,and where they are held.In the past BBOA has been all about holding hunts in northern Indiana,or Ohio.Doesn't seem fair to the members in the southern states.

Posted by bloxhdc on 01-25-2015 01:32 PM:

Support the one you want to support and leave it alone.

Posted by J. Lovell on 01-25-2015 05:49 PM:

If we only had one organization, we would probably only have half as many hunts to go to. It's nice to have two organizations working for us. You guys need to start a third organization and maybe we'll have three times as many hunts.

__________________
Blueticks that I've started and hunted over the years:

Nt. Ch. Lovell's Coon Catching Blue Sally
Nt. Ch. Home Brew Blue Josie (Out of Gary Uchtman's Jobe and Sarah which is a Thorn female)
Gr. Nt. TP's Dizzy Dot (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Razor Ridge Pop-A-Top)
Gr. Nt. Ch. Lovell's Smokey River Blue Ann (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Coonbranch Blue Bandit)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Smokey River Daisy (Ch. Gr. Nt. Ch. Twin Springs Blazin Bull)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Smoken Blue Molly (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Dillion's Smoken Blue Magic)
Gr. Nt. Lovell's Smokey River Snap (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Jennings Blue Top Hank)
Gr. Nt. Smokey River Blue Molly (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
Gr. Nt. Smokey River Blue Wahoo (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
Gr. Nt. Davis White River Sugar (Nt. Ch. Smokey River JBs Chief)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Katy Bar the Door (Gr. Nt. Ch. Nixon's Wolf Creek Geronimo)
Gr. Nt. Sky's Blue Bumble Bee (Gr. Nt. Ch. Northern Blue Jet 5)
Nt. Ch. Lovell's Coon Catchin' Katie (Nt. Ch. Bowden's Wolf Creek Smokey)
Gr. Nt. Washburn Valley Blue Drip ( Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Uchtman's So. Blue Hornet)
Gr. Nt. Stewart's Natural Okie Reb (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Natural Smokey River Rebel)
Nt. Ch. Coon Catchin' Jim (Gr. Nt. Ch. Gr. Ch. Clear River Diamond Jim)

Jeff Lovell (918) 839-3066

Posted by Rolin Blues on 01-25-2015 07:17 PM:

To clarify

UKC is the one than brought this idea up of having 1 larger Bluetick asso. without having to have 2 sets of expenses & Bluebooks. Just wanted to point this out so noone thought it was trying to be a BBOA or BBCHA take over of other organization. Both associations are financially sound as far as I know so that's not an issue. Enjoy both, works for me. Take care, Ron.

Posted by Baby Blue on 01-25-2015 07:54 PM:

both organizations host hunts

BBCHA mostly in the southwest where its membership is stronger, the fall round up has been in Illinois for several years but with change in president I'm sure it will gravitate back to the sw states.

BBOA has the breed national event and is open to bids but the guidelines are to keep it where it will draw maximum numbers, and the reunion if I remember rotates with each other year being the responsibility of both organizations

BBOA also has 7 zones and if you look at this page you will see many events offered from zone championships to state championship which gives all Bluetick followers the ability to attend as many of those events within their zone as they wish.

both are operated different from each other so bringing them together would be a massive undertaking on just how they would be governed let alone the basic traditions of each organization.

If both are financially solvent then why mess with something that is not broken ? And to say they would grow in numbers I don't believe as once stated by a former president and officers who did a survey both organizations have about a 60% duel membership and there will always be those if it was to happen who would not support it and next thing you know there would be another one started up to replace one or the other IMO

If it ain't broke don't mess with it, they both do a great job supporting and promoting the Bluetick coonhound !!!

Posted by rance56 on 01-25-2015 08:13 PM:

I don't think our most recent zone hunt drew 10 dogs. How many dogs hunted at the most recent fall round up?

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-25-2015 08:34 PM:

It would be a real challenge for everyone to consider what's best for the breed as a whole (whatever that might be) , instead of our own personal agendas, preferences, and conveniences. I can't get as involved as I would like to b/c of my schedule, and responsibilities, but that does not diminish my appreciation for the breed as a whole. I had rather (just me) advertise in one publication, seen by many than two publications seen by few. There is undisputable strength in numbers. There is one thing I don't understand. How can anyone look at the size of the blue books of yesterday, and the books of today, or the number of hounds hunting a few years ago in comparison to the number of hounds hunted today, and say it's not broken? I'll shut up now.....I promise.

__________________
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Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 01-25-2015 09:53 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Craig Edwards
It would be a real challenge for everyone to consider what's best for the breed as a whole (whatever that might be) , instead of our own personal agendas, preferences, and conveniences. I can't get as involved as I would like to b/c of my schedule, and responsibilities, but that does not diminish my appreciation for the breed as a whole. I had rather (just me) advertise in one publication, seen by many than two publications seen by few. There is undisputable strength in numbers. There is one thing I don't understand. How can anyone look at the size of the blue books of yesterday, and the books of today, or the number of hounds hunting a few years ago in comparison to the number of hounds hunted today, and say it's not broken? I'll shut up now.....I promise.

I'm a dual member of both organizations. I agree with both sides of the argument on this question. I also believe combining will never happen until one or both can't afford to oporate anymore.

What about trying to unify the breeds associations but keeping them separate too? What are you saying? I mean hold hunts together? Have state championship hunts with both sharing the role at the same time? And then having a "Superbowl" type of hunt at the end of the year? BBOA vs. BBCHA? It would be like a bluetick world hunt in and of itself? Idk. What do y'all think?

__________________
Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

Posted by southernthunder on 01-26-2015 01:15 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by Craig Edwards
It would be a real challenge for everyone to consider what's best for the breed as a whole (whatever that might be) , instead of our own personal agendas, preferences, and conveniences. I can't get as involved as I would like to b/c of my schedule, and responsibilities, but that does not diminish my appreciation for the breed as a whole. I had rather (just me) advertise in one publication, seen by many than two publications seen by few. There is undisputable strength in numbers. There is one thing I don't understand. How can anyone look at the size of the blue books of yesterday, and the books of today, or the number of hounds hunting a few years ago in comparison to the number of hounds hunted today, and say it's not broken? I'll shut up now.....I promise.

I could only afford to do an add in one book this year and not both like last year. I understand what your saying!

__________________
Eddie Harp
918-448-7321
Laelaps Pro Staff
Southern Thunder Bluetick Kennels

HOME OF: GRNITECH GRCH PR HAMLIN'S DAVIE CROCKET HTX
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2015 UNITED ENGLISH ARKANSAS STATE CHAMPIONSHIP CHAMPION / HIGH SCORE OVERALL CHAMPION
2015 BBOA YOUTH NATIONALS CAST WINNER 2ND OVERALL HIGH SCORE
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2015 BBOA/BBCHA GRAND REUNION RQE 1ST PLACE IOWA
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Posted by Jim Bartley on 01-26-2015 03:44 AM:

Fred Miller wanted BBCHA to be his Bluetick Association for years, and PKC approached the BBCHA about being it's breed association back in the late 90s, but the BBCHA was always intended to be an independent organization and God willing, it will always be independent.

Posted by BIG$BLUES on 01-26-2015 03:36 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by J. Lovell
You guys need to start a third organization and maybe we'll have three times as many hunts.

I remember people getting mad and saying they would never buy another BBOA membership because they couldn't hold a major hunt so the SBA was the new savior

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-26-2015 03:40 PM:

I wonder if the associations are growing; memberships, hunt participants, and the blue books themselves? Anything that does not reproduce dies, plain and simple. If either assoc. is not reproducing (growing) it's a matter of time. I can't help but wonder, how many hunters can't afford to support both assoc.'s, and they don't know which one to support, so.............they don't support either one!

__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by coonbone on 01-26-2015 03:54 PM:

Thunder,the way i read the history of BBOA is they disbanded,and started back up in 1959.Maybe that's why BBCHA started up in 1954.

Posted by bshort on 01-26-2015 04:07 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by BIG$BLUES
I remember people getting mad and saying they would never buy another BBOA membership because they couldn't hold a major hunt so the SBA was the new savior

I was thinking the same thing whatever happen to the SBA??????

Posted by rance56 on 01-26-2015 05:19 PM:

what are some tangible benefits to the members and the breeds of having two organizations?

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Posted by Mark A. Hauck on 01-26-2015 06:17 PM:

been kind of watching this thread and thought I'd just put some facts into place

First off in 1946 the breed association put in place was not BBOA in fact it was called "Bluetick Breeders Association" with the first President being none other than O.O. Grant.

It was a well organized organization but due to the fact that hunts were so far and in between it failed after just a few years. Those older hunters that I talked to and read their stories regarding the first organization felt it was a great thing, just a little before its time.

Now enter the year 1959 a few years after BBHCA had organized. Then owner of UKC (Dr. E.G. Fuhrman) met with some of the more prominent Bluetick Breeders and owners to discuss an organization that would embrace all of the USA rather than just one specific region.

So became the birth and organization known as BBOA (Bluetick Breeders Of America) which was given the UKC Charter and as far as I know has always been the Charter accepted and requested Bluetick organization and have never known of any other request otherwise.

Craig - as far as overall hunts I think if anyone will look at averages over the last 10 years all coon hunts have fallen off, lets be honest folks its a dying sport and with little influence of our younger generation it will continue to fall and not just because of the lack of interest but also because of our surroundings as land becomes harder to find to hunt on, farms are made into mega farms and trees are ripped out to get a few more rows of corn or beans, lets face it, the days of 100 dogs at your local club hunt are gone forever.

This is just a fact, and last year all (ALL) of the breed association's had a major drop in their entries, some more than others but they all had decrease numbers at their major National events. With gas prices getting lower and if they should stay there till summer we might see an increase but if they go back up, slow in hires for jobs it will only get worse.

Thus is the need to prepare, think ahead and plan for such contingencies, and sound judgments on future plans within the breed associations and how we do business. Taking care of the clubs and the hunters who do travel and take part in our events, including the folks who show. Plan, and do more planning to get it right makes good practice.

Rance56 - I guess the advantage could be the competition between the two keeps them working to support the Bluetick Coonhound and the folks who follow and love them ? Also with friendly competition comes the basic fact that to win support of the member the officers of an organization must go out of their way to support and make the member feel welcomed and feel like they matter to the organization and are more than just a number. That and the fact that both organizations offer any member who belongs to a club to hold and host an event in their name (BBCHA & BBOA)

BIG$BLUES - The Bluetick Reunion which is a major event was held 2 straight years in the South, that being in North Carolina as a matter of fact, and though it was considered a mild success the numbers and support was way off even from those who lived in the surrounding states ???? Why ?? Don't know and it was in April and yes one year we had rain and I mean rain LOL but still I and many others knew of 25-30 plus major Bluetick folks who didn't show up, didn't support it and most of all the off breed folks in the local area didn't come and when you only have 3 walker guys show up ???WOW it kills your hunt and for some reason they didn't come and didn't support a major hunt in their area.

Well enough of my babbling and look deeper for the reason before you jump. Walkers have 3 organizations, Redbones have 2 organizations, English have 3 organizations, Black & Tans have 2 organizations and they all seem to be ok with them so why are we so determined to take two organizations who support one major goal but with different venues and history and rush to make them something they may not want or even survive if forced into something that was never meant to be ???

Be safe, and Tree Blue

__________________
Take a Child Hunting, and you will never forget it !!

GR NIte CH GR CH'PR' Dalton & Haucks BluRidge Lynn

GR Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's So Blue Queen

GR NIte Ch Rogers Blue Molly

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Daltons BluRidge Pat (Full liitermate brother to Smokey II)

Nite CH GR CH GR W CH'PR' Hauck's Carlolina Star

Nite CH GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Queen II (Daughter of Queen)

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Nancy Ann

GR CH'PR' Southland's Blue Ebony (Daughter of Ann)

Nite CH'PR' Southland's Blue River Joe (4 wins to Grand & 15 cast wins !!)

Gr Nite CH CH'PR' Blue River Little Sue (Daughter of Lynn)

Posted by southernthunder on 01-26-2015 07:18 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by coonbone
Thunder,the way i read the history of BBOA is they disbanded,and started back up in 1959.Maybe that's why BBCHA started up in 1954.

that could be right I just don't know. that's why I was asking for true facts from those that know cause I don't. thanks for giving that a thought

Posted by rance56 on 01-26-2015 07:26 PM:

Maybe the answer isn't combining but more coordination between the two.

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 01-26-2015 08:55 PM:

Thanks Mark for the history lesson! That was great! I didn't know a lot of that. I'm not a board member or an officer of either organization, however, I am a member of both. But to me, if they both want to coexist, they need to revamp some things concerning the sectionals. I guess I mean making it where the sectionals mean more to the states and the local clubs? I really don't know how to do it, and it might not be able to be done?

__________________
Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-26-2015 10:55 PM:

I still think every breed would be stronger with one association, and focusing all of our attention and effort into one channel. There is strength in numbers.

I do believe our sport is on life support, and it will be a matter of time until coonhunting with hounds will be a thing of the past. The probability of the breed assoc's going under is probably greater than the possibility of uniting. If our sport, and fanciers of the bluetick hound are not reproducing, we will die. The average hunter will not join either one unless it relevant to the average hunter. There's no doubt it could be done, but I don't think it will happen. Unless breeders and fanciers are excited, we will not reproduce ( attract other and younger hunters) , but there must be a reason to get excited. If things are declining, for whatever reason, we are not going to see different results until we employ a different approach.
Mark, I've never been involved at the level you've been involved. Not very many have, but there are certain principals that hold true, just like the law of gravity. You can generate more electricity with one large, powerful, river than you can with two or three small streams.

__________________
Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by bobbycagle1 on 01-26-2015 11:30 PM:

Well said Craig! Ive been wanting to say that without coming across wrong. So thank you for saying it! There needs to be some excitement and changes at the grassroots level. I mean in us as members too! If our members aren't excited about what's going on, out association aren't going to reproduce. We need more prizes and more incentives at the local level. Jmo. And Craig, you're right about getting younger folks in our sport. And its not just our breed, but all breeds have to do a better job at getting younger folks into our sport. I hope we start getting it done! Because I love our breed and our sport!

__________________
Bobby Cagle,
Waldron, Arkansas
(479) 207-3789

Posted by rance56 on 01-26-2015 11:55 PM:

ive looked through numerous bbchh an bboa bluebooks, and unless im way mistaken, some of the most vocal on here arent even a member to either most if not all years.

how can you give advice on what should happen or what needs to happen, and you cant even buy a membership for $25?

for these organizations to be successful as they can, it is as simple as most all of us buying a membership each year and going to the breed hunts, even if its just one or two of the ones that are close by. and heck, even u dont competition hunt and cant get someone to hunt the dog for ya, just come show a couple of dogs to support the breed and the organization.

and im sure im going to overlook someone that deserves special recognition and im sorry if i do, but i cant help bu tmention if we had a couple hundred members like Tommy Higgins, we would have hardly any worries. Thanks Tommy and to all the members for the support

__________________
the oldest ride in the park, but still the longest line.

Posted by coonbone on 01-27-2015 12:41 AM:

I belong to both bluetick organizations.If i had to pick only one to belong to,i would pick BBCHA because of the money incentive to win the world hunt.I like the idea of the organization giving back to the members,and striving to breed better hounds.

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