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-- SCORING QUESTION, Need HELP! Thanks. (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=195962)

SCORING QUESTION, Need HELP! Thanks.

Three dog cast A, B, C

All dogs struck in A- 100 B-75 C-50

A trees for 125 to the left

B and C tree to the right B-125 C-75

Walking towards the dogs, dog A moves and joins Dogs B and C. Before we get there.

Dog A is minused 125 correct?

Here the question.... Get to the dogs all three on same tree. We obviously needed a COON hound cause the tree was SLICK!

So, B is minused 125 on tree and 75 on strike for 200 minus.
C is minused 75 on tree and 50 on strike for 125 minus.
A was minused on tree to left for 125 minus, and what does
it get here?

Here is what rule 4(g) says: Dogs treeing, but not declared treed, when Judge arrives, will be minused on tree points on “off” game or slick tree. Points will be determined by next available position in the case of one dog, or split available tree points in the case of two or more dogs. Dogs shut out on strike on slick tree or “off” game will receive minus tree points only.

In that case, would Dog A not go back in for 50 on their tree and minused strike 100 and tree for 50 on that tree? For a total of 275 minus?(125 on it's own tree as well)

Thanks for answers.

That is how I got it. 275- for dog A. OUCH!!!!

Yeah dog A needs to learn to keep its ears shut. -275 is how i would have scored it as well.

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can you declare dogs split before you get there??..................

Why would you want to?

More answers would be appreciated before I tell what the MOH had to say about it.. Not that it mattered in this cast, but you never know about future casts. Thanks for replies thus far. Would also like to hear from a UKC rep if possible too. Thanks.

Chris, rule 11 says "If a split tree is obvious (Judge's decision), split tree must be declared." UKC has always told me that only a judge can declare a dog to be split treed, not a handler.

Here could be a trick question and is probally what the master of hounds said..since all dogs were treed there is no need to wait the 5.. so both trees are closed.. when dog a left his tree he gets minused his tree points but cant recive plus or minus on the other tree because it was closed before he got there..

__________________
ANTHONY R SMITH

Your right JiM

sorry guys i was trying to correct my 10wk old pup chasing
a papoline beagle up and dwn the fence and had my mine
on a differnt cast.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by blueticking: it
scratch dog a if not struck back in before the 3rd bark. [/QUOTE


WOWWWWW

WILD HOG

That's exactly what he said. Since all dogs were treed in and trees were closed then Dog A only gets his tree minused 125 and his strike gets minused on our tree but gets nothing on our tree.

But in UKC I did not think you could get anything on strike plus, minus, circle if it's not connected with a tree and he is there, unless (d) If dog declared treed, after five minutes has elapsed no additional dog can be declared treed at that particular tree but if they come in to tree will get minus on track and nothing on tree IF COON IS SEEN. But it was slick.

But read 4g again.. Dogs treeing, but not declared treed, when Judge arrives, will be minused on tree points on “off” game or slick tree. Points will be determined by next available position in the case of one dog, or split available tree points in the case of two or more dogs.

When we arrived it was already there. Did not come in after we were there. It was there. He knew it was there when walking into our tree cause he did not even want to start towards it(first dog treed in). Statement was from cast member" I thought she was that way." "She was but I think she will be with them now."
Was no 5 started cause all dogs declared treed.
It does not say anything about treeing on a closed tree or had previously treed on another tree or anything.

Having a tough time not going by what that rule says.. I know in other KC they would just get deleted on strike and nothing tree, but I thought this rule was diff in UKC according to what the card says anyways.

A- 125 minus it's tree and 100 minus on strike on our tree. 225 minus total was what he said. Wish I could fully understand his reasoning but I really can't with it being in black and white on 4G.

?

After the MOH made his decision did you continue and ask to file a formal complaint? If not then it is a dead issue. I agree with Jim's decision and it would be the decision, I as MOH, would make. If you think a wrong decision was made then file the complaint. IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO CORRECT THE SITUATION.
As far as some of the other responses go: 1. the dog was already struck in SO IT CAN'T BE SCRATCHED! 2. It doesn't matter if the tree was closed or not if the dog was there treeing WHEN you arrived then it is subject to the rule. Next available tree is awarded and minused for a slick tree!

__________________
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PKC#50739

The MOH was wrong, a dog can be assigned next available tree position for under rule 4(g) even if the tree was closed when the dog got there. A formal complaint would have gotten the message to the MOH that he screwed up.

problem

I had sort of the same deal and it seems every body I ask says something different.

Dogs A strikes for 100
B strikes for 75
then dog B trees for 125
Dog C then is struck but shut out for 50 (line through correct?)

about 3minutes go by and dog C is treeing a little with B but not declared treed. Go to tree B and C are there treeing and it is slick. What does dog C score??

Here is what rule 4(g) says: Dogs treeing, but not declared treed, when Judge arrives, will be minused on tree points on “off” game or slick tree. Points will be determined by next available position in the case of one dog, or split available tree points in the case of two or more dogs. Dogs shut out on strike on slick tree or “off” game will receive minus tree points only.

Read the last line.

__________________
352-400-2374 Cell
PKC#50739

Clay hit it on the head. Think about it this way. The rule say" dogs treeing but not declared treed when judge arrives" The only way the judge could be at the tree is the tree is closed!!!

Also the dog was not shut out on strike so dog a takes minus strike and tree with next avilable position -50.

__________________
Tim Hickman

Re: ?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
After the MOH made his decision did you continue and ask to file a formal complaint? If not then it is a dead issue. I agree with Jim's decision and it would be the decision, I as MOH, would make. If you think a wrong decision was made then file the complaint. IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO CORRECT THE SITUATION.
As far as some of the other responses go: 1. the dog was already struck in SO IT CAN'T BE SCRATCHED! 2. It doesn't matter if the tree was closed or not if the dog was there treeing WHEN you arrived then it is subject to the rule. Next available tree is awarded and minused for a slick tree!

---

Well it was explained wrong. It doesn't matter if the dog got there before the tree was dead or not. If the dog is there when the judge arrives at the tree, 4(g) applies.

this could get intresting.he gets 100 circled for strike
and 125- for tree

blueticking it?

Where do you come up with this crap? In the original post. The hound(A) gets 125 minus for leaving the first tree. Then gets next available tree points on the second tree which happens to be 50 minus AND gets it's original stricke points of 100 minused also. So if we add -125-50-100 we get a total of -275. There is no circumstance mentioned that warrants the hound (A) getting circled strike points.

In the second post asking about a situation hound (C) is shutout on strike but is on tree when the judge arrives. Therefore the strike points are deleted not circled, the hound is awarded next available tree points, 75, and minused those tree points. Therefore hound (C) has -75 points.

__________________
352-400-2374 Cell
PKC#50739

Brad... In your case I would delete the strike cause on same tree and shut out, but he should go in for next available and minused.

Clay.. As for filling a report it did not matter. The cast was horrible as far as treeing coons goes. Great guys to hunt with. I was just trying to get the judge to see what it should be, so we asked the MOH after our cast was over. He told me the dead tree thing. Two of us had 400- and one had 275- and withdrew. No coons or lack of dog power.

I just wanted to find an answer before it happens on a cast where it does matter and we(I) know what the correct thing to do is. The judge in woods said it should be minused 125 on his tree and deleted strike on our tree and nothing on our tree. I showed him rule and explained it should be minused on his tree, then given next available tree position on our tree 50 and minused his strike and tree on our tree for slick.

Thanks for replies. Sounds like majority would have done the same thing I was explaining to do.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Clay Lautzenhiser
Here is what rule 4(g) says: Dogs treeing, but not declared treed, when Judge arrives, will be minused on tree points on ?off? game or slick tree. Points will be determined by next available position in the case of one dog, or split available tree points in the case of two or more dogs. Dogs shut out on strike on slick tree or ?off? game will receive minus tree points only.

Read the last line.

---

One comment about filing formal complaints. When a judge and/or MOH are wrong, it makes no difference if that mistake effects the outcome of the cast. A formal complaint should be filed anytime the MOH is wrong, if for no other reason, then to get UKC to make the MOH aware of the mistake. Filing a formal complaint should not be seen as insulting the MOH or trying to cause trouble. It is nothing like a miscinduct complaint. Nobody gets in trouble. It just gives UKC the opportunity to make the MOH aware of his incorrect ruling if, in fact, he was wrong.

YES Jim is right the formal complaint is not a just a bad thing it should be looked at as a second appion. A master of hound she NOT be held under the death penalty just becouse he is tring to give the other folks that wants to hunt a chance to do so. I would rather UKC correct my mistake and make it right than to cheat someone out of something. I am a MOH, a dad,a worker, a hunter a friend and I doen't have time to study the rules every day. I try to do the best I can but if their is a mistake made please let it be corrected and we will go on.