UKC Forums - Warren Haslouer..Was he a breeder?

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-- Warren Haslouer..Was he a breeder? (http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthread.php?threadid=128421)

Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-09-2007 09:23 PM:

Warren Haslouer..Was he a breeder?

First of all, I do not want this thread to become a negative one. I'm sure the moderators will delete it if it does.

Secondly, I do not consider myself to be a breeder. I raise a few pups each year, but I'm not a breeder.

I do not think a person can be classified/qualified to be called a breeder unless he/she has established their own line of hounds.
To me, being a breeder is more than establishing a kennel name. You can put a name on another man's strain of hounds.

I do not take any credit for breeding the dogs I hunt. I have made a couple of crosses, but they were upon someone else's foundation.

For example, Dave Dean is a breeder. He developed the Hammer line. Ed Mead took the Jet dogs (Hammer bred) and developed a strain. I believe Ed Mead has become a breeder. Ron Taylor built from the Jet dogs a strain of hounds from Levi. I would consider Ron Taylor a breeder. Marvil Hill started from Vaughn hounds, and established his own strain through Hills Blue Rock. I could go on, but you get the picture.

I believe Warren Haslouer was one of the wisest breeders in Bluetick history. Warren Haslouer developed his own strain, but in the early days, he continued his strain through his females. He had great stud dogs in the past ( Rambler, Blue Smokey, Sage) that were related distantly, but kept the blood going through his females. Males get much more attentions than the females, and this ought not be.
Everything changed with Diamond Jim. Most every stud he used/offered after D.J. was from that blood line. He incorporated the blood of stud dogs from the past through his females.

He made an impact on the bluetick breed, and I'm not sure he has recieved the credit he deserves. A lot of hunters have stood in the winners circle that would not have been there if it had not been for the genius of Warren Haslouer, the one and only Mr. Smokey River.

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Posted by Boss on 01-09-2007 10:13 PM:

Mr Edwards: I don't wish to make any comments on your question...however you may be interested to know that there is a hunt in the works in October to be held in Antlers OK, this hunt will be called the "Smokey River Classic", Lee Smith has been trying to get this hunt off the ground...I hope that it grows into a nice hunt...BBCHA intends to help where we can...jb

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Posted by hellcat on 01-09-2007 10:27 PM:

For What it is Worth

I think you are on the right track.
I knew Warren for years. I found him to be both wise and willing to share ideas about breeding hounds. I hunt English hounds But I thought a great deal of Warren.
Jess

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-09-2007 10:38 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Boss
Mr Edwards: I don't wish to make any comments on your question...however you may be interested to know that there is a hunt in the works in October to be held in Antlers OK, this hunt will be called the "Smokey River Classic", Lee Smith has been trying to get this hunt off the ground...I hope that it grows into a nice hunt...BBCHA intends to help where we can...jb

Thanks for the information. I hope things go well. If it was not so far from N.C. to OK I sure would love to come. When some dates are finalized maby someone will post them. I've always wanted to make the trip and meet some of the blue dog men out there.

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Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by Boss on 01-09-2007 10:41 PM:

Mr Edwards: I forgot to mention that I have a dual champ female directly our of OL' Chief and Gr Nt Ch Ruby..Ruby being a litter mate to Tramp, June and the rest...she will be 11 in Jun..would like to raise a litter out of her but am a little leary that it might kill her also...jb

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Posted by Boss on 01-09-2007 10:42 PM:

Right now the tenative date is the first weekend in Oct..jb

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-09-2007 10:56 PM:

quote:
Originally posted by Boss
Right now the tenative date is the first weekend in Oct..jb

I'll check my date book: would love to make it. I travel alot in revival meetings, and stay booked about two years in advance. I've always wanted to attend a bluetick event.

I have seen your ads in the BBCHA, and thought you had dogs from this line. I owned the sire of Ruby, and the mother of CHief when she died. She was sick when I got her, so I didn't get to breed her.

If your female is in good health she may do O.K.. It's not unheard of. At eleven, she probably doesn't have much longer. If she was mine it would make a difference if I had anything out of her or not.
Good luck.

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Posted by Whistle Pig on 01-09-2007 10:56 PM:

Uncle John knows

Craig, Uncle Johnny Vaught seem to be a real good friend of your's, you should ask him. he will put you on the right track.

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Posted by Wayne Valentino on 01-09-2007 11:00 PM:

My thoughts

on Mr. Smokey River... Warren dedicated his entire life to the Bluetick breed as did his father before him.. Bluetick and redticks in his days. He bought alot of his dogs already trained and utilized them, but most if not all had some common ancestory that came from him or his closest friends kennels. I only met him once and he treated me like I was a long time friend and answered my questions about certain dogs I questioned him on. Without a doubt he is one of the most dedicated bluetick men in the country. His contributions to coonhunting will be impacting the sport for many years after he is gone.... In the legacy of those before him, Vaughn, O.O. Grant, Sebastian, Bragg, Harshman, Findlay, etc.....

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-09-2007 11:17 PM:

Re: Uncle John knows

quote:
Originally posted by Whistle Pig
Craig, Uncle Johnny Vaught seem to be a real good friend of your's, you should ask him. he will put you on the right track.

I didn't know that John Vaught was your uncle!

Voyd, you've got a point .

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Posted by larrypoe on 01-09-2007 11:23 PM:

Warren was a breeder and dog man, bar none.

He is best known for his Blues but had some nice English hounds as well.

I have always said that for me the genius that was Haslauer peeked with NTCHCH Hamiltons Blue Boy Ten. He took the least known son of one of the most used crosses in English history, and showed him to be the best producer in the cross. Now years later some people who owned and used those brothers finally saw he was right all along.

Most people blew Ten off for his more famous brothers, but Warren saw something in him. Not a great track dog, but probably the best lay-up dog in history. He was successful in throwing it in his pups as well.

I never hunted a Smokey River Bluetick, but as an English hunter I owe Warren a Thank you as well.

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Posted by lauraroeder on 01-10-2007 12:29 AM:

i don't understand?

why do you feel he hasn't received recognition for his accomplishments? he has been in the BBCHA Blue Book for a long time. articles both him and his blues. he has been in guy ormiston's columns since the late 70's from my recollection. i always felt that many of the good breeders have had recognition by the outstanding accomplishments of their hounds. some more than other's. haslouer, dean, uchtman, vaughn and on...all have contributed both as breeders, as well as life long commitment to their breed. each breed has their founding fathers. but i sure would like to hear more on some of our breeders today....they are our future. my opinion....

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Posted by V. Cannon on 01-10-2007 01:23 AM:

Re: Re: Re: i don't understand?

quote:
Originally posted by hound2
and your a internet jockey and your fingers have hurt your reputation

Jess I don't claim to be a breeder, hunter or houndman, I don't ask anything of anybody but I live 11 miles from where Warren lived for many years, I hunted with Warren some for about 30 years and saw a lot of things that I won't write but the things that I write in sincerity are true.

I'm sorry the truth hurt your frgile self esteem.

Posted by hound2 on 01-10-2007 01:35 AM:

i have thick skin you dont have to worry bout anything you WONT EVER hurt me i dont care if you lived in his bedroom there is a reason he is where he is and been where he has been and there is a reason you are where u are and have never been wher he has u can put him down in any way you want but he got where he got one way and that is COONDOGS i still havnt seen your name in the bluebook

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Posted by V. Cannon on 01-10-2007 01:41 AM:

Jess, you don't need to stay up tonight trying see my name mentioned in any bluebook, get you some rest, you seem alittle cranky this evening. good day, Voyd

Posted by fatboy77 on 01-10-2007 01:48 AM:

why argue? how were his dogs bred what strains did they go back to

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Posted by larrypoe on 01-10-2007 01:48 AM:

Jesse,

In the game of coonhunting, like a lot of other things, there are those who somehow duck the radar.

I guarantee you Voyd has forgot more about coonhunting and hounds than you and I put togather have ever known.

Its not my place to give you names of hounds he has worked with, that's up to him, but it would blow your mind.

This ain't his first rodeo.

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-10-2007 01:53 AM:

The only reason I asked the question was because some have expressed they feel that Warren bought good stud dogs, and sold alot of puppies, but some don't recognize him as a breeder. He bought, and sold a lot of dogs all over the country. It is my opionion that he established himself as a breeder through his females. We know that he established the Smokey River name, but there are those who believe that Smokey River was a name only, not a strain or line of hounds. He did establish a line through his females, making outcrosses at times by breeding to other males. He made a cross on Southern Blue Pride which was basically a Hammer bred dog. From my observations everything changed with Diamond Jim from the stud perspective. Every male that he really pushed were descendants from Diamond Jim. Diamond Jim was his Jet, or Blue Rock, or Levi, or Hammer. It had been going on through the females, but no one recognizes the females, not like the stud.

All of my observations were made from a distance. I have heard many rumors, but I've learned not to believe much of what I hear.
I had rather NOT believe a bad rumor, and it be true: Than believe it, and IT NOT be true. J/M/O

When I said I was " NOT SURE" that he had received the recogonition he deserved, I was coming from the perspective as a breeder, not a hound man. He sure made a lot of crosses that " Clicked." He knew hounds and their bloodlines. As I said in my first post, I am not a breeder. I am not a good hunter. I'm not even good on the computer. I like any hound that will get the job done right. I like it even more if it is blue. I like it even better if it is Smokey River bred. If that is wrong....I plead guilty.

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Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by hound2 on 01-10-2007 01:56 AM:

never did i say that he didnt buy his studs or anything like that what i said was mr cannon has no right to talk

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Posted by V. Cannon on 01-10-2007 02:00 AM:

Craig, I wasn't trying to speak about Warren in a disresptfull way, Laura asked a question and I answered with an honest opion.

Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-10-2007 02:12 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by fatboy77
why argue? how were his dogs bred what strains did they go back to

He carried on the blood of Smokey River Blue Smokey, Rambler, and Sage through his females. Those dogs carried Grant, Vaughn, and J.V. blood.

He didn't use studs ( in a major way) from any of these hounds.
He kept females from these hounds. Sage, Blue Gal, Queen, Majesty, Kit, and Fanny II, were all out of Earl Hill's Ark. Blue. These females, along with females from Sage crossed with Diamond Jim produced the hounds that really put Smokey River on the map in a big way. For example, the male that served as a foundation for the Tree Thumpin dogs (owned and bred by Harry Darby) was Tree Thumpin B J./ B.J. was line bred Combs Smokey River Jack. Jack carried the best of the dogs Warren used for breeding. These were the hounds that produced the hounds we know today as Smokey River hounds. Chief carried these dogs, along with a shot of Hammer III.

I did not know Warren personally. I talked to him on the phone, got dogs from him, and sold him a few, but I have kept up with these dogs for close to 30 years. People used to kid me, accusing me of wanting a Smokey River dog more than a coon dog. Maby a little truth in that. I have been facinated with the history of these dogs more than any other, and I really don't know why.

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Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by capt_agricultur on 01-10-2007 02:15 AM:

Warren

???? Help ... What yrs did he live in Gueda (sp) Kansas ?? Im having brain freeze Glueticks since 1954....

Posted by billie jo on 01-10-2007 02:17 AM:

Oh...My...we have spoken before about the Smoky River dogs...as you know, I have a female that has some Smokey River breeding in her.. can she come down an hunt?Actually..she has ..Smokey River Blue Two Tone is her dam...an also has SmokeyRiver Be's Kate an Smokey River jBells Be.. in her ped.

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Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-10-2007 02:20 AM:

quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
Craig, I wasn't trying to speak about Warren in a disresptfull way, Laura asked a question and I answered with an honest opion.

I sure didn't take it that way. You told the truth. I respect Warren, but I know what you are saying.

I respect your opionion in a major way. You just tell it like it is.

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Phone (336) 648-3210

Home of Mayberry Blueticks
Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

Posted by Craig Edwards on 01-10-2007 02:24 AM:

Re: Warren

quote:
Originally posted by capt agricultur
???? Help ... What yrs did he live in Gueda (sp) Kansas ?? Im having brain freeze Glueticks since 1954....

You are lucky to have a brain to freeze! LOL! I'm not sure I do!

I don't know off the top of my head. I have heard/read the story, and remember when he moved to Antlers, Ok. I'm pretty sure he moved in the early to mid 70's. Maby someone can give the answer.

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Phone (336) 648-3210

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Jhn. 3:30, "He must increase, but I must decrease."

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